To eliminate all this confusion, perhaps it's time to stop thinking of lenses in terms of millimeters and instead identify lenses in terms of their angles-of-view. Angles-of-view (AOV) are a constant. An 84° AOV will always identify the lens as a wide-angle. On a DSLR containing a full-frame (24x36mm) sensor this would translate into a 24mm lens, while on a Leica M8 (1.3x) it would be closer to an 18mm lens, and a 12mm lens on a 4/3-system camera (2x). There will be subtle differences between each of the resulting images based on the sensor size, but the angle-of-view will always appear the same.
Angle of view is dependent on the film format, focal length is what it is, regardless.
Angle of view is dependent on the film format, focal length is what it is, regardless.
(Wasn't sure where to put this, as we don't have a 'Lens' Section, but since 35mm is the general public's standard, I figured I'd put it here.)
Now that I'm shooting MF as well as 35mm (and APS-C), this question has really been bugging me.
I understand that the focal length of a lens is determined by the distance of the focal point to the film plane, whether it be label in mm, cm, or inches. But when you change formats, what an Xmm lens captures changes from format to format. In other words, a 50mm lens on a 35mm format camera will capture ~46° of the scene. But a 50mm lens on a 6x7 will capture ~81° of the scene. Same focal point to film plane distance, but a completely different image results.
Now it can be said that the general public knows what a 'XXmm' lens will give them as a final image, but that's only because it became the standard way back when. I know for a fact that people new to photography have a difficult time grasping the difference between what they will get as a final between a 24mm, 50mm, and 135mm. Many just don't have any idea what that means, and I'm sure back in the day it wasn't any difference. There is no (IMO) logical relationship between 50mm and 46°, that can be (relatively) immediately understood by a novice.
But if I say to someone who has a basic understanding of geometry that your eyes see ~200° of a scene, and that lens A gives you an image that represents 81° of that scene, I think they might have a better comprehension of what the end result will be. They can take their hands, hold them up to their face, and make blinders that give a 81° view of the scene, and get an idea of what they'll get in their image.
I personally try and convert a 'mm' lens into AOV lens, so I can 'see' what I'll get without having to try different lenses. In other words, I'll look at a scene, and say to myself I want approximately 55° of what I am seeing to be captured, and then grab the lens closest to that.
Labeling a lens as a 52° AOV would standardize the entire lens lineups across formats. No matter what format you're using, a lens with an AOV of 52° will give you 52° of the entire scene. So, in my case, my 24mm (35mm format) lens would be labeled as 81° AOV, as well as my 50mm MF lens (Mamiya RB67). But the way it is now, I have two lenses that are named the same, but give 'wildly' different results.
Discuss....
Ok, to re-iterate:
I'M NOT TRYING TO CHANGE ANYTHING, JUST WONDERING WHY THEY CHOSE WHAT THEY DID
How can you say that? If you are saying that a 50mm lens on a medium format will give you the same scene as a 50mm lens on a 35mm format, or a 50mm on 4x5 format, you're completely mistaken. The final image captured with a (designated) '50mm' lens will give you completely different images across different formats.
But if I have a lens designated as an 81° AOV lens on medium format, and take a picture of a scene, what is captured would be the same as if it was taken on 35mm format with a 35mm lens designated as a 81° AOV lens. But to accomplish that the way it is currently named/designated, I'd have to use a 50mm MF lens, or a 24mm lens on 35mm format. So the FL is not the constant.
How can you say that? If you are saying that a 50mm lens on a medium format will give you the same scene as a 50mm lens on a 35mm format, or a 50mm on 4x5 format, you're completely mistaken.
It will give you exactly the same scene (angle of coverage). It's just that the scene is being projected onto a differently sized piece of film.
If the piece of film is larger, the corners will be cut off. Large enough and the entire image projects as only a circle in the middle. Your 50mm lens is still projecting full coverage for a 24x36mm frame, but that "frame" is now buried in the middle of a 56x56mm medium format piece of film. Or nearly lost in a 4x5-inch piece of film.
If the piece of film is smaller, only the center portion of the projected scene is recorded, thus giving the net effect of a telephoto. Think cropping factors for digital sensors that are smaller than the 24x36mm of full-frame 35mm.
Ken
Focal length is a property of the lens itself. It is one of the most important properties of the lens and it is appropriate that lens be marked and characterized by it.
[...]
Usually it is best to label and characterize items by features that are inherent, rather than by assumptions on how they will be used.
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So my question remains; why do you think they (I have no clue who 'they' are) decided to use the focal point to film plane distance as the 'standard' of measurement, when even then there were different formats that would result in different final images? And keep in mind, LF was around for a long time before 35mm became the 'every man' format. My guess it had more to do with the design/manufacturing process than anything else.
focal length is the distance between lens and film plane that would be focused at infinity. It is also interesting to note that a Schneider s 300mm is actually a 298.something ,something. I.e. effective focal length. what is actual and what is label are two different things. a 50mm lens can vary from 43mm (effective focal length) to something like 55mm depending on what the manufacturer makes) labeling such and such, but not the "real" focal length. all 35mm lenses in 135 format are not exactly 35mm from lens to film plane . they all vary,
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