Why, in books, is the "white" of a photo often less "white" than the page?

[maponline]

This will probably sound like a stupid question to experienced printers, but I am trying to understand the experience of looking at BW photos printed in a book, where often the whitest tones in the picture are in fact not as white as the white of the page. This includes cases where a white background is used and you might have thought (were it not for the page margins) that the background had been blown to pure white.

What is this due to? The paper used for the original print? A choice to never reach pure white in some aesthetic schools?

Is it something controlled while exposing & developing, at the printing stage, or only when reproducing prints in a book?

Many thanks for those who know. It's a small question but it's been bugging me for a while...

 

[chriscrawfordphoto]

In real black and white photos, there are rarely any whites that are pure paper white because tones that light have no detail or tonal differentiation within them. That brightest possible white is reserved for bright specular highlights; it looks bad for skies or white buildings or other white objects to be rendered that light.

 

[AgX]

In photo papers you got a base material that is enhanced for reflectivity, sometime also is fluorescent.

Printing papers not always have hese features.

 

[Bob Carnie]

When printing large open areas of white, lets say sky or snow.. and these areas go to the easal blades, I always try to manipulate those areas to show some density,,, ie I want to see the line of the easel blade... once I can see this fine line I know I have laid down a nice white tone...

When the print is subsequently matted , usually with a rag paper that is not pure white , the snow becomes white and I feel comfortable knowing there is some tone in the scene.

Anton Corjbins printer would never been able to make those fabulous prints without flashing in some tone to the whites.

Pure white areas in a print IMHO should be left only for specular highlights, or for components in a graphic print style where one is complimenting white against other tones.

hope this makes sense.

Bob

 

[Bob Carnie]

good observation OP btw, this is an aspect of printing that many ignore.

Also the ink press operators (film separators ) have fooled us on how we perceive different photographers work by pumping up the contrast or lowering the density contrast.
A classic example would be Salgados Worker Series... in real life the actual photographs are not as BOLD, still beautiful but not as one thinks.
Another example would be HCB prints.. I find the book prints much nicer than the real prints.

 

[Bill Burk]

maponline,

I am sure it relates to the printing process and the printer's standards. It's best not to allow pure white, but instead to make the smallest dot of ink that the plate and press can hold, otherwise there can be an objectionable "salt and pepper" look as individual dots that are supposed to print get worn off the plate.

 

[fotch]

Probably something to do with photo paper is not pure white and or to illustrate a piece of paper of any kind, is has to be slightly different so you could see it. Pure white on pure white would be invisible, unless one of the white was less than pure. Or an edge has a shadow.

 

[AgX]

In photo papers you got a base material that is enhanced for reflectivity, sometime also is fluorescent.

Printing papers not always have hese features.

I just realized that my reply was not at all related to the topic. I was negligent whilst reading the OP.
Sorry.

 

[cliveh]

White and black are relative values and if you can successfully print an image with detail in both black and white values to the margins of each extreme then you have probably cracked it.

 

[Maris]

I reckon there's two kinds of white in a black and white photograph. Paper base white says "light source" or "specular highlight" and I'd go so far as to insist that anything darker doesn't read right.

The step darker than paper base white says "white substance" or "very bright thing" and again that placement reads right to my eye at least.

The fine step between paper base white and the next darkest tone is an exacting darkroom challenge. I've heard it said that when you see this step well rendered in a black and white photograph you can be sure the photograph was made by some one who knew what they were doing!

 

[Hexavalent]

maponline,

I am sure it relates to the printing process and the printer's standards. It's best not to allow pure white, but instead to make the smallest dot of ink that the plate and press can hold, otherwise there can be an objectionable "salt and pepper" look as individual dots that are supposed to print get worn off the plate.

Exactly. The JPD (just printable dot) is a limiting factor in single ink printing. Using multiple inks (black and additional grey inks) combined with hybrid FM screening can produce reproduce the subtlest of highlight tones.

 

[maponline]

Guys, you're wonderful, thanks for these very useful insights!