Why Free Workshops?

[Dave Wooten]

Petzval Tee Shirt..hmmm, nice idea Dave!

Just finished a big round of Memphis barbeque.....I take an XXL !

 

[blaze-on]

Just finished a big round of Memphis barbeque.....I take an XXL !

Yes, and I'll run a 3xl in case you have leftovers...sounds like you're working on the "soft effect" already Dave...

 

[mark]

I think it is clear that there are issues here that go beyond this thread. I think it is also clear that others voiced the same opinion Aggie did, but their responses were not treated in nearly the same manner.

Per,
If you truely want to reach a bigger audience participate in forums. It is because of this forum and one other that my enthusiasm keeps increasing. Your 114 posts have been about your workshops. All right you had one about Dave Wooten but that was the only thread begun or participated in about something besides your free workshops. Like I said it might be the mood I am in this evening but I honestly find your post a bit self serving, and your treatment of a regular forum member to be rude.

As to your question you bet there should be more free workshops. Corporate sponsorship might be the way to go. Then I might be able to afford the attendance fee.

 

[per volquartz]

Mark, the best way for me to interact is in free workshops...

or Gettogethers - whatever people wish to call them.

It is true that I never post in other forums - I do read and search for information however. And I enjoy looking at the work of others.

I am a member of APUG as well as a sponsor.

If my comments were rude I apologize. I carry no grudge and have for several months sent email to Aggie trying to find out what she was upset about. No answers. The last emails were sent today and copied to another forum member to make sure I had the correct address. Still no answer.

It would serve all of us better for Aggie and I to solve our differences outside this forum I agree.

 

[scootermm]

per... its a great thing the free workshops/gettogethers/unofficial-financially-unobligated-events you put together.

in regards to the bickering... I feel sorry for those involved. the bickering and such seems unneeded. better expressed in a phonecall or the like.

 

[Mark Carstens]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch...

Its all about creating renewed interest and excitement about film based photography.

These workshops provide a setting where newbies and seasoned pros can get together and share information, experiences and know-how.
While some of these free workshops have scheduled presentations of various topics the primary part is doing photography in great settings while meeting others who share the excitement (and addiction) to photography. As a result many new friendships have formed. And a wonderful new body of photographic work has been created.

These free workshops should not be seen as competition to specialized fee based workshops. Instead it is my hope that photographers / teachers, who offer such specialized fee based workshops will participate in these free workshops, which would further the growth - not only of film based photography in general - but also serve as a way for these photographers / teachers to "grow" their own specialized workshops from this large new base of image makers...

I have always felt - and still do - that manufacturers and distributors of photographic equipment and supplies would be wise to support free workshops. This would be an effective way of spending advertising and PR funds, which today may be tighter than in previous times due to the influx of digital photography.

OK, now that we've stopped getting personal, can we return to our regularly scheduled discussion?

When I moved from medium format to 4x5 going on three years ago it was with much trepidation. The format seemed...well, for lack of a better word, tedious, but I knew that, eventually, I would create better images as a result. Researching further I found that not only were there many other people plying their craft through this format, but they were willing to share their knowledge with me for the price of a little windshield time, a dusty campsite and few bottles of wine. Smells like more education that I should be allowed to have. Better still. it was going to be "FREE!"

Since that time, I have been to four of Per's FREE workshops, and I've come to realize that what I get out of each of them is directly proportional to what I put into them. Maybe it's just me. OK, it's definitely me. But, if I'm willing to ask the questions, make requests and really invest myself in the experience, I take as much away from one of Per's workshops as I have taken from most fee-based workshops I've attended. What's more, in addition to Per, I have also had the opportunity to pick the brains of other accomplished photographers, like Claire Curran, who happily share their decades of hard-won experience and even "secret" shooting locations with relative neophytes like myself.

OK, OK, so I totally buy-in to Per's vision, and hope to contribute to the "new body of photographic work," so discount my opinion if you like, but it would be an honor to help him bring this idea to fruition. Sure beats mowing the lawn . Not only that, if we can get industry buy-in, we are sewing the seeds for the future of LF photography.

Finally, I invite those who read this thread to filter out the recriminations, and just show up for one of the FREE workshops. While you're there, invest yourself in learning as much as you are able. Ask questions and LISTEN--be a sponge for knowledge--and then make some images, dammit! Don't approach the experience as "free," rather, go after it like you're spending grandma's inheritance and her spirit will rain down seriously bad kharma on you if you don't come home with something to show for it .

 

[Dave Wooten]

Its all about creating renewed interest and excitement about film based photography.
These workshops provide a setting where newbies and seasoned pros can get together and share information, experiences and know-how.


Here Here! What Mark said.

The concept of the mentoring workshop certainly has much positive merit as witnessed by many of the alumni attending Pers' workshops in the past few years....also personally, having spent nearly 30 years in the classroom, and I am sure Mark also a school teacher, will concur the use of mentoring and the sharing of knowledge is not only one of the most enjoyable ways to learn but also one of the most efficient...the creation of interest, the feeding of interest and the comraderie, a sharing support.......a positive environment in which to learn.... there is definately a foundation to be built on here. I do not think the proposition of sponsorship is at all far fetched...This format has merit

 

[gr82bart]

Reading this thread reminds me of the saying: "No good deed goes unpunished." I've never been to one of Per's whateveryouwanttocallthemandwhatothersinterpretthemtobe, but I think he's doing a good deed....

Regards, Art.

 

[Mark Carstens]

Thanks, Dave. I agree on all points, especially about mentoring, and the positive and supportive learning environment. That, IMO, is what separates this type of learning experience from the typical workshop. Not that there aren't others out there that offer this, or at least, feel like they do, but some folks would also rather be the "sage on the stage." Picture the Dali Lama himself--the flowing robs, the entourage--but with a much bigger ego to assuage, and an 8x10 in his studio.

Moving this discussion along, I'm wondering what we can do to feed into and expand on Per's vision, aside from the obvious--make better images and perpetuate the idea that traditional processes are more than (from the manufacturer's view) a charming anachronism. I, for one, and I know there are others who would be willing too, could help Per coordinate small local get-togethers which, at the very least, exchange feedback and support to those who want grow as artists.

As an example, there are four of us in the SF Bay Area--all FREE workshop attendees--who met up to shoot at Point Reyes in December. A modest beginning, no doubt, but we've talked about taking this a step further, and meeting to view each other's work, processes, etc. Ultimately, this may help create the numbers we need to attract more workshop participation, both on the instructor and student sides of the equation, not to mention garnering the attention of manufacturer's and distributors. At the very least it would provide an ancillary benefit of greater cohesion for the LF community at large.

So, where do we go from here ladies and gentlemen? Who else wants to chip in?

 

[papagene]

My ears are burning... somebody must have mentioned my name somewhere in this thread.
What Whiteymorange and myself are trying to do with our NE-APUG get togethers is not that dis-similar from Per's, maybe on a smaller, more regional scale. Just getting photographers together is the first step, and making and establishing on-going friendships is the second. From there my aim is to have APUG'ers share skills, knowledge, experiences and contacts. All this in an informal, friendly, casual and enjoyable setting.
I really don't like to exist as a photographer in a vacuum. APUG has been a wonderful discovery for me. And I sometimes hesitate grabbing my gear and heading out alone to take some photos. Sometimes I wish to be by myself... OOPS, I digress. Another aim of mine with NE-APUG is to create a comfortable atmosphere where one person will not hesitate to contact others to go out photographing.
As far as "Free" workshops/gathering are concerned, with some money is an issue (myself for instance), with others it is not. I want to be as welcoming to all interested and to make available to all, no matter how fat or thin their wallets are, the wealth of knowledge and experience of our members.

humbly your

gene

 

[Rob Skeoch]

I was at the first Zion workshop/gathering .... I thought it was such a great idea I've held one in my community outside of Toronto that had 17 LF shooters at it. Then organized a car pool trip to see the Weston show at Rochester. I hope to take part in a number of gatherings in Canada this year.
-Rob Skeoch

 

[lee]

Since my name was brought into this war of semantics, I will respond to the post above and tell what some of us in Texas are doing. Five of us have started a long term project to find and document rural churches in Texas. Matt Magruder and Mike Castles and David Brown and Jeremy Moore and I are involved. We now have a data bank and a small website and even a small forum to log and store info on. We are writing a mission statement soon. Most importantly we are photographing together and alone. We all met on Apug.org. Each of us has a different vision and a different reason to be involved.

here is the link for the website Matt has put up for us now. It is not a complete website yet but we will be adding to it in the not to distant future.

Dead Link Removed

lee\c

 

[Photo Engineer]

I could give a free seminar or whatever - in photographic system design, based on my prior experience and with no outlay of funds and nothing invested but some time to write up things from my experience. See my series on Photo Net on this topic. It proves my point, as does the page on 'myths', also on PN. And all the time I learned this at Kodak, they paid me. All costs are essentially covered.

The same is true of a professional photographer who sells prints or services. If they talk to others and explain how they do it or did it, the costs were covered by the sales of prints and services. Therefore, giving the knowledge away free is their right, they can do it at whatever price they care to set, or do it free. Their costs have been pretty much covered.

My workshop on emulsion making and coating required thousands of dollars and 2 years time to do from scratch to make sure it works in my students darkrooms. I had to do it in a way simpler than the methods used at EK. I have to charge to recoup my expenses.

So, I can see both sides of this argument vividly.

OTOH, two things strike me. I would feel odd if my posts were restricted to 'ads' or 'promos' for my workshops. I try to make more posts helping people than I do mentioning my workshops. In fact, I spent two days deciding to make this post as it has mention in it of my workshops. I was very reluctant to make the last post with an update on my emulsion making for this very reason.

I also feel bad that personalities have entered into what could be a factual discussion of very valid different points of view on the subject. Others have noted this as well here and I don't have to repeat it in this post.

I say that we should accept the fact that there is a whole spectrum of tutorials, gettogethers, workshops, classes or whatever that can be given and can range in price from free to very expensive, depending on the costs of the institution giving it and the instructors expenses. I don't care what we call them, as long as the quality of the material to be given the student is made clear beforehand regardless of cost.

I spent quite a bit of time teaching photography, computer programming, computer repair and Japanese among other subjects and know how hard preparing any type of lecture is regardless of topic. I also know that student expectation goes up in proportion to cost. (You get what you pay for in most cases)

Every potential teacher and student out there in APUG land should be aware of, and willing to accept and embrace all points of view and should be able to understand that the yield to both sides can vary from sudent to student and from teacher to teacher. However, the teacher must set standards beforehand for him/herself and for the student. There should be some sort of goal or overarching purpose for the event and some valid conclusion or result must be evident for each and every attendee.

I have set very high expectations for myself in any class I have taught and will continue to do so. I will expect the same from my students. I hope that this is the case for any sort of get together of APUGGERS no matter their level of expertise or the nature of the get together or what it is called.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

And, I left out a paragraph. Sorry.

A 'meeting' of peers is different than any of the above. It is an exchange of ideas and information and should never involve a cost as all people involved are equal and are sharing information with each other on a quid pro quo basis. They are receiving value for value.

I would liken it to a project meeting of engineers sharing information of equal value with each other on a common topic.

PE

 

[Dave Wooten]

Sunday Morning

Well put PE,

And it is evident in Per's opening statement in this post clearly what his goals, objectives, motivations and expectations are, it is also evident that those participating in a meaningful way in Pers workshops have had a positive life experience in that format. I dont feel in any way that one has to be defensive of one venue over another, tuition or no. This past year my schedule permitted me to attend workshops on both sides of the continent, at a cost of thousands of dollars to my self...money well spent..and I hope to do it all again....I do have to say, however, that in my past life as an academic, there were times when I paid through the nose, wasting my time sittlng at the feet of the learned, because it was in the curriculum. Often the learned are not able to impart and communicate or create an environment promoting the joy of learning....in fact, quite often those stage center, are not educators....and some claiming to be educators often do not deserve to be given ear, they usually fall by the wayside, substance will win out.
There are many many "members" of Apug...maybe even thousands, I dont know, I do know thousands do not post, the great majority, do not participate, at all, other than that they listen... and to me this also is a positive element of the forums-this is their chioce-it is a good thing.

Pers' offering his workshops on the forum is most definately a positive contribution-we all do our part...I cherish the relationships that I have been able to make because of Sean's wonderful work with APUG and via Pers Workshops....I think we all should be supportive of positive efforts of those who bring to the table, what they are able to do and what they do best.

Ron you certainly know, and I will state here that I, and possibly thousands of others not only appreciate the expertise and advice you so freely share on APUG, but also are very cognizant of the rarity of having free access to an individual such as yourself. Ron, your background and education are most evident...I know when you are on subject...you know what you are talking about...and I listen, and personally, I look forward to being able to attend some of your workshops and please keep the faith.

PS high 60's and much sun in Vegas...

 

[Mark Carstens]

There's something for everybody!

To give readers an of idea of how the connection between FREE and fee-based workshops can play out, I'm forwarding a message from Tony Mournian, Editor of Photographers' Formulary newsletter. This is a 5:30 movie of Jan Pietrzak discussing Platinum Printing.

Jan gives workshops fee-based workshops himself and is also on the advisory staff at Freestyle (APUG site sponsors). At Per's recent Joshua Tree workshop, Jan offered a taste of this alternative process to attendees. So, in addition to promoting "alternative" processes in general, those who wanted to go deeper could now connect with Jan for additional training. The bottom line: sharing his knowledge at a FREE workshop, and in affect sowing the seeds of interest in Platinum Printing, can ultimately lead to workshop attendees for Jan.

THANKS, TONY! THANKS, DAVE WOOTEN, TOO!

Without further ado, here's Tony's movie intro...

It's not a full length feature, but gives a good summary of what is involved in making a platinum print, as well as a precis of the history of platinum printing.

Jan gave his talk at Joshua Tree National Park during the "free workshop" coordinated by Per Volquartz. Because photography is as much learned by watching and by doing as it is by lecture and book learnin', and because the uniquely valuable experience of working alongside highly experienced, well trained people can be a gratifying personal experience, workshops like the Joshua Tree weekend are as highly prized as the most expensive commercial ventures.

There are two versions of the movie. They differ only in the size of the images.

The first version is 120x90 pixels. This means it is about the size of a postage stamp. If you have a dialup connection or a slow computer, this is the one for you. The movie will open with RealPlayer or with QuickTime. Click here for the small version.

The second version is 240x180 pixels and also will play using RealPlayer or QuickTime. It will play easily on a highspeed connection and/or a faster computer. Click here for the larger version.

If you need Quicktime 7 for the PC, get it here. . . It is free.

If you have a Mac, or if you need Quicktime 7 for the Mac Get it here. . . It is free.

If you need RealPlayer, click here.

All downloads are free.

Tony
mournian@sandiego.edu

 

[abelsykes]

I, for one, am grateful of what Per is doing and I hope he will continue. Call them what you will. I have learned much and look forward to attending many more.

Abel

 

[Wilbur Wong]

Face to Face Community

I have been to a number of workshops both fee based as well as Per Volquartz's sponsored "free" workshops. I do not understand why there are those who would denigrate the free workshop concept nor attack anyone who offers these. I particularly appreciate the comments of Mark, who said "I've come to realize that what I get out of each of them is directly proportional to what I put into them" I feel that this is true not only of this specific topic but also to any other endeavor or life experience.

I have been a photographer for nearly 50 years, and I continue to develop and mature in my vision, and personal satisfaction with this art and craft. I will readily agree with any posters who will say that the stated objectives of a given (Per) "workshop" may not be fully addressed at a specific time. But that will be readily true of many life learning experiences. What do we expect from any learning experience? In school we may attend a lecture given to 180 or more students with little feed back. A lab situation with a junior associate? Much real learning and development occurs with personal practice of one's field along with a personal commitment to further themselves. I for one do not expect to be handed a golden diploma that says "I am a visionary photographer because I attended and graduated from such specific curriculum."

For me, my art has "improved" greatly in the past few years, these few years are a small percentage of my practicing photographic life. I attribute a large portion of this development to continued contact with Per Volquartz AND to the community which his free WORKSHOPS have engendered, to which I owe a tremendous debt.

As a practitioner of limited financial means, I am not in a position to either/and/or both, take multiple fee based workshops with photographers who I greatly admire, nor do I expect at my point in life, to "apprenticeship" to such a photographer who in time could be considered a mentor to my personal work and development. Per's workshops have afforded to me a development and experience otherwise not available to me. In addition, it has further enabled me to meet many other photographers with whom I have developed personal and shooting relationships which have also been developmental in my craft and art.

These free events are indeed "workshops", perhaps I should capitalize that term. I would quote the following:

workshop - action learning: "involves a group of people coming together regularly to help each other learn from their experiences. The group works together on problems in their community, workplace or project, in order to improve the problem. The people involved increase their skills and knowledge by learning with and from each other, working on real issues or problems, reflecting on their experiences, and taking action based on group decisions. Values associated with action learning include respect for others, honesty and integrity, collaboration, and developing trusting relationships with others"

source is Dead Link Removed

If I had unlimited funds and unlimited time to devote to my personal development as a photographer, would I be better off to go elsewhere than Per Volquartz's free workshops? Perhaps yes, and perhaps no. Neither I nor anyone who reads my post could possibly predict whether I could become an Ansel Adams, Dorothea Lange, Weston or Brassai because of a success or failure from any specific workshop. For me and many others who have attended Per's workshops, it works for us.

Respectfully, Wilbur Wong

 

[roteague]

I've only been to one of Per's worshops, and I wish I could attend many more. When I first went, I thought I was the odd-man out; a color landscape photographer working around a bunch of B&W photographers. But, I only had to put up with one comment about "colorful calendar art", which someone made, not realizing I was a color photographer. However as the workshop continued, I found that Wilbur Wong and I had color photography in common; there were a couple of days where Wilbur and I were the only ones up before the sun, shooting. Also, coming from Hawaii, I didn't have any camping gear, so Matt (blaze-on) was kind enough to allow me to share his campsite, so I wouldn't have to drive into town and back everyday, and I got to sit around the campfire and enjoy the fellowship of my fellow photographers. One thing I always appreciated, was Per's willingness to to discuss any photographic topic we wanted to talk about. I consider Per a friend and a gentleman. I'm just saddened that because of distance, I can't attend more of these - I had just gotten laid off from my job before the one I attended, so had plenty of time on my hands.

 

[Mark Carstens]

NEW movie links - FTP server change

Update from Tony...

I had to change the links to Jan's movies because of problems with my ftp server. So the current links don't work.

Here are the current and correct links:

http://home.sandiego.edu/~mournian/qtmovies/120x90_h263_jan_pietrzak.mov

http://home.sandiego.edu/~mournian/qtmovies/240x180_h263_jan_pietrzak.mov


The only things changed are the capital letters are now lower case.

If you can change this on APUG, I would appreciate it.

Thank you,

Tony
mournian@sandiego.edu

 

[Gustavo_Castilla]

my 2 cents 11
I am glad and welcomed the opportunity to participate on the workshops Per has put together !!!
they are fun you do get to learn about ones work and photography in general .
yes they may not be technical type workshop in the tradition of how to seminars but that is what is so great about it !!!!
In this day and age where people are so concerned with money is a pleasant surprise to find a great artist that will share hi experiences and gide you for FREE!!!!!
yes we all will like to be avail to recoup the money and time that we spend learning how to work with some particular process that will be awsome Go . know is spend lots of green backs along the way and I am not even close to where I want to be that said you could by the prints I listed on the gallery .
BUT that does not bring me any closer to my goals and if some nobody asks me how to do what I do I will be glad to share to the extend that I can set that person on a track of sorts No I will not give out all the details for I belive that that will be a terrible mistake we learn from others and by doing . What is worst to pass on what you learned or to take it to the grave !!!
well enought rambling
thanks Per