Why did Nikon F2 have horizontal shutter?

[Christiaan Phleger]

Interesting I forgot that the FT3 had MLU; I think that's just about the only non-double shuttered vertical travel with MLU I can think of.

 

[BradS]

I read the same thing but the Nikkormat FT3 has mirror lock up and it doesn't have dual set of shutter blades I don't think so. Also most modern cameras the mirror can only be locked up for 30 seconds.

Interesting I forgot that the FT3 had MLU; I think that's just about the only non-double shuttered vertical travel with MLU I can think of.

The Nikkormat FTN has mirror lock up. It is the sliding lever just above the lens release button.

 

[RLangham]

The Nikkormat FTN has mirror lock up. It is the sliding lever just above the lens release button.

Quite stiff on some examples. All the Nikkormats based on the FT should have it with the exception of the stripped-down FS, which is perhaps Nikon's last meterless SLR.

 

[NB23]

Leaving shiny objects (and a lens) on the window can lead to fire. That’s also a main cause of forrest fires: briken glass, bottles...

I downloaded the manual from Brother Butkus' excellent website orphancameras.com. I don't recall seeing anything about not poking your finger through the shutter, I'd think that would be common sense. I don't recall where I found the wrinkle info. A metal focal plane shutter is, IMHO, far preferable to a cloth shutter in a rangefinder camera like the Canon P, since it can't be damaged by accidentally leaving the camera pointed toward the sun. I have the lovely Pentax 50mm f1.2 lens, once while idly admiring it I focused the sun's image COMING THROUGH A WINDOW on my hand. Not fun! A lens of that speed at full aperture would burn a cloth focal plane shutter very rapidly, and of course the film behind the shutter. Imagine, wisps of smoke coming from your classic Leica ......

 

[BradS]

Leaving shiny objects (and a lens) on the window can lead to fire. That’s also a main cause of forrest fires: briken glass, bottles...

Surely, you jest. The vast majority of wild land forest fires are caused by lightning.

 

[NB23]

Surely, you jest. The vast majority of wild land forest fires are caused by lightning.

totally!
I meant “one of the causes of wild fires”, and it is quite frequent. Shiny objects...

 

[Chan Tran]

The Nikkormat FTN has mirror lock up. It is the sliding lever just above the lens release button.

The question is why Nikon put MLU in the Nikkormat which doesn't dual blades curtain like the F4 or F5.

 

[BradS]

The question is why Nikon put MLU in the Nikkormat which doesn't dual blades curtain like the F4 or F5.

...because it is a valuable feature that customers want.
It seems to work just fine on the F2 and FTN
Lots of higher end 35mm SLR prior to the F4 & F5 have mirror lock up. Just a few off the top of my head...
Nikkormats
Nikon F2
Pentax KX
some of the Minolta SRT series
Nothing special...

 

[wiltw]

The question is why Nikon put MLU in the Nikkormat which doesn't dual blades curtain like the F4 or F5.

Simply, the Nikkormat incorporated an off-the-shelf shutter module made by Copal, the Copal Square shutter, but not built specifically to Nikon specifications.

Topcon used the same shutter in the D1, but they offered no mirror lockup. It might have been that Nikon thought metal curtains made the issue of curtain burn less likely than cloth?!

 

[voceumana]

Consider, at least, that flash sync speed isn't all that important unless you are combining flash with ambient light (aka sychro-sun). For photojournalism work, flash is probably mostly used as the sole light source when ambient light alone is insufficient for exposure; and the F2 flash sync speed was probably fast enough for most applications.

There are lots of engineering decisions that go into the design of a complex product like a camera, and some of those are such mundane issues as using existing parts inventory and production methods.

 

[Les Sarile]

Consider, at least, that flash sync speed isn't all that important unless you are combining flash with ambient light (aka sychro-sun). For photojournalism work, flash is probably mostly used as the sole light source when ambient light alone is insufficient for exposure; and the F2 flash sync speed was probably fast enough for most applications.

This is corroborated in Nikon shutter history part 2 (https://imaging.nikon.com/history/chronicle/rhnc11shut2-e/index.htm) as it states, "To meet the growing demand for daylight fill-in flash synchronization, Nippon Kogaku had begun to study what needed to be done to effect drastic improvement in shutter performance."

 

[Chan Tran]

Simply, the Nikkormat incorporated an off-the-shelf shutter module made by Copal, the Copal Square shutter, but not built specifically to Nikon specifications.

Topcon used the same shutter in the D1, but they offered no mirror lockup. It might have been that Nikon thought metal curtains made the issue of curtain burn less likely than cloth?!

The F4 and F5 have dual blades shutter because Nikon think the single blades shutters would cause light leak when the mirror is locked up. I wonder why they put the MLU on the Nikkormat without the problem. Other camera with horizontal shutter don't count because Nikon stated this is the problem with vertical blade shutter.

 

[RLangham]

The F4 and F5 have dual blades shutter because Nikon think the single blades shutters would cause light leak when the mirror is locked up. I wonder why they put the MLU on the Nikkormat without the problem. Other camera with horizontal shutter don't count because Nikon stated this is the problem with vertical blade shutter.

I think they only expected the MLU to be used for expensive non-retro ultra wide angle lenses, which the average Nikkormat user probably wouldn't need badly enough to save up for.

In their defense the MLU has been incredibly stiff and unpleasant to use on every Nikkormat I've ever handled.

 

[Helge]

I think they only expected the MLU to be used for expensive non-retro ultra wide angle lenses, which the average Nikkormat user probably wouldn't need badly enough to save up for.

In their defense the MLU has been incredibly stiff and unpleasant to use on every Nikkormat I've ever handled.

It’s to punish you for using it.
MLU always seems to be unpleasant to use. OM system, S-RT, F3 etc.

 

[RLangham]

It’s to punish you for using it.
MLU always seems to be unpleasant to use. OM system, S-RT, F3 etc.

S-RT seems easy enough to use to me. The best I ever saw was on the Yashica TL Electro X though.

 

[Helge]

S-RT seems easy enough to use to me. The best I ever saw was on the Yashica TL Electro X though.

The little turn-knob with a sharp ridge, right up against the body, that is always a little more tight than you want?
It’s workable I guess. But easy?
I guess I makes sense on older cameras, where it was mainly used to accommodate wide angles that protruded past the mirror, and you didn’t want the mirror to come down prematurely.
But when you have the camera carefully composed on a tripod, and you need to fumble with a hard to reach and turn knob, it not ideal.

 

[Les Sarile]

It’s to punish you for using it.
MLU always seems to be unpleasant to use. OM system, S-RT, F3 etc.

Nothing is as unpleasant as that on the Nikon F . . .

 

[RLangham]

The little turn-knob with a sharp ridge, right up against the body, that is always a little more tight than you want?
It’s workable I guess. But easy?
I guess I makes sense on older cameras, where it was mainly used to accommodate wide angles that protruded past the mirror, and you didn’t want the mirror to come down prematurely.
But when you have the camera carefully composed on a tripod, and you need to fumble with a hard to reach and turn knob, it not ideal.

It's not tight on mine. Though mine seems to have been heavily used and everything has a broken-down feel.

I hate the F2's lockup, I will say. It's not as bad as the Nikkormats' but it is deeply inconvenient to mash down hard on a button and then turn a stiff lever coaxial with the button, especially the way it's mounted on the camera. That would be my main complaint about the F2, actually, besides the way the metered finders put the speed dial up too high off the top deck.

 

[BradS]

.....complaint about the F2.....the way the metered finders put the speed dial up too high off the top deck.

Get a Nikon AR-1 soft release thingy. It raises the shutter release such that it is just about perfectly situated with respect to the shutter speed dial. It is a huge improvement in the ergonomics.

 

[RLangham]

Get a Nikon AR-1 soft release thingy. It raises the shutter release such that it is just about perfectly situated with respect to the shutter speed dial. It is a huge improvement in the ergonomics.

I might... but it is comfortable to have your middle finger on the DoF preview button and your index on the shutter release, unfortunately.

I'm wondering if they imagined a "shutter-speed priority" style of manual shooting where the shutter speed got changed less than the aperture.

 

[BradS]

Don't over think it.....

 

[RLangham]

Don't over think it.....

View attachment 260306

I suppose not. Is that Photomic? I see that it's one of the pre-AI finders.

 

[BradS]

I suppose not. Is that Photomic? I see that it's one of the pre-AI finders.

It is a DP-1 finder. This one was overhauled by Sover Wong and works perfectly but gets relatively little use....and is therefore, the prettiest. I have three Nikon F2 (DP-1, DP-3 and DE-1).

 

[George Mann]

I would love to have both the DE-1 and DP-3. Too bad they sell for such ungodly amounts.

 

[Bill Burk]

I never had a Nikon F or F2. Which is the best. I think I would truly only get the full experience if I tried the original F with Photomic finder and a 50mm f/1.4

But my wife asked me if it would work. Which is easier to repair? For example right now I have a Contax IIa color dial that I repaired without getting into the shutter region. And David Lyga guided me through soling a capping issue in my Spotmatic F. That’s about the limit of my repair ability.