Why did my son make THAT camera movement?

Jeff Searust · Dec 7, 2009

Make sure he's paying for the film.

Rick A · Dec 7, 2009

SchwinnParamount said:
Ok,

I bought my 21 year old son a 4x5 monorail, lens/lensboard, tripod, film holders, and 50 sheets of Tri-X. He has access to my library of photography related books including several dedicated to large format photography. He even read a couple of them.

His first day of shooting, he invited me along. I watched as he made these torturous and entirely unnecessary camera movements where his subject required almost no movements. I'd look at his ground glass and bite my toungue rather than point out that if he just backed off on the rear swing, moderated the front rise... etc, he'd have a tack sharp image.

Yes, he recognizes that the images he made are "twisted". He likes that. Imagine a cone shaped building whose image on a 4x5 negative is mostly out of focus except for a narrow horizontal band in the middle that is tack sharp. I've held my opinion in, knowing he is exploring his own vision.

At what point should I step in and gently direct him to the "right" way to use a LF camera?

Leave him alone. Its HIS vision, and his time to learn and explore. In no way should you force the lad to be a ractalinear, anal retentive robot clone.

Rick

Shaggysk8 · Dec 7, 2009

I go with leave him alone, he is right and you are wrong maybe! who knows but I do know as long as he is getting what he is after time will refine his own work and he will find his own way to the perfect photography.

Unless he says "Dad, I want to take photos like you", don't say a thing.

Paul

jp80874 · Dec 7, 2009

Every body has pretty much beat the Hell out of you Dad. I am almost 70 now and I wish my Dad had taken and interest in what I was doing or I wish he had had an interest other than work that I could have shared with him. Have fun together. You have a relationship that many of us do not.

You mention a library of books that you and he have shared. I enjoyed an Andrea Modica workshop several years ago. If I understood her well, she felt it was a guy thing to be rigid about how a view camera worked. In her case an 8x10. She said that all that movement potential gave her freedom of expression that she didn’t see in the work of many men.

These are some of the books I purchased from her.
"Contact Sheet", Light Work, 2001
"Human Being", Nazraeli Press, 2001
"Minor League", Smithsonian Series, 1993
"Real Indians", Melcher Media, 2003
"Treadwell", ChronicleBooks, 1996

I would also recommend “Barbara” which frankly was more emotional than I could take, but had vast camera movements that really conveyed what she felt.

Good luck enjoying your son.

John Powers

david_mizen · Dec 7, 2009

i am with mark i had a great time with my late father at a local art college doing hot glass work, he did what he wanted (gritty grainy mosaic things) i did what i wanted ( boxes out of gravity formed sections) and we had a great time. he died suddenly about 18 months ago i treasure the time we spent mucking about making things, why spoil it arguing about matters of vision and style

jp80874 · Dec 7, 2009

df cardwell said:
At what point should I step in and gently direct him to the "right" way to use a LF camera?

"There ARE no standards" -Jim Dow

I don't know. Three of mine have a front and rear standard. The fourth, a macro 8x10 with 60 inchs of bellows has a middle standard as well. I have always been fond of the middle ground where you can take a look while the ones at the end take the beating.

John Powers

BrianShaw · Dec 7, 2009

Use reverse psychology: look at his image intently, stroke your beard/chin (whichever comes first) and slowly say something about the "artisic qualities" the image holds. Then suggest printing it really big and offering it for sale. He'll either fess up that it isn't the image he was hoping for and perhaps ask for some fatehrly guidance... or he'll sell it for lot$ and lot$ of money and you can live off of him for a while.

domaz · Dec 7, 2009

I recently saw an artist who basically all she does is pictures based on strong and wild view camera movements. Selective focus is very big artistically right now..

keithwms · Dec 7, 2009

Indeed the selective focus thing is quite a fad at the moment. Mind you, I am all for any fad that gets people thinking more about LF. Most people who try lensbabies don't feel satisfied, so... I say let the LFers go on and throw everything out of whack and show off what can be done by Scheimpflug. Whether it is to be valued as art is probably not going to be determined in the here and now anyway.

Anyway, just for your reading enjoyment...

http://uvamagazine.org/photo_gallery/grounds_cville/monticello

olleorama · Dec 7, 2009

SchwinnParamount said:
Ok,

I bought my 21 year old son a 4x5 monorail, lens/lensboard, tripod, film holders, and 50 sheets of Tri-X. He has access to my library of photography related books including several dedicated to large format photography. He even read a couple of them.

His first day of shooting, he invited me along. I watched as he made these torturous and entirely unnecessary camera movements where his subject required almost no movements. I'd look at his ground glass and bite my toungue rather than point out that if he just backed off on the rear swing, moderated the front rise... etc, he'd have a tack sharp image.

Yes, he recognizes that the images he made are "twisted". He likes that. Imagine a cone shaped building whose image on a 4x5 negative is mostly out of focus except for a narrow horizontal band in the middle that is tack sharp. I've held my opinion in, knowing he is exploring his own vision.

At what point should I step in and gently direct him to the "right" way to use a LF camera?

You are very welcome to adopt me. I will follow your guidance very closely when you are accompanying me if you are willing to donate the before mentioned photographic equipment. Please contact me and my lawyer for details in our service level agreement.

Regards.

EDIT: And judging by your name you could mentor me in road racing too, or at least sponsor me.

Cheryl Jacobs · Dec 7, 2009

Perhaps he is not interested in photography as a literal art form? Some of my favorite works have very little to do with how things actually look, and are much more an expression of the photographer's personality, perspective, and sensitivities.

Bosaiya · Dec 7, 2009

Beat him senseless while shouting at him about how he's no son of yours. That's what I do with my kids, it works great!

That or take your camera along with you, together, make some photographs together, and later while sharing a nice beverage talk about the photos you made together. Tell him what inspired you to make yours and ask him about his decisions. Who knows, maybe you'll be surprised.

It's kind of an indirect route and not nearly as fun as the first, but he's old enough that his hitting you back may have actual consequences.

Leighgion · Dec 7, 2009

I should have mentioned before that frankly unrealistic distortion of images is rooted in an artistic traditional that's had far-reaching artistic influences: German Expressionism.

Call it a matter of varying taste, but if I had a 21-year-old son, I'd think he was much cooler trying to make his own Caligari images rather than wanting to be just like Ansel Adams.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · Dec 7, 2009

I would say offer yourself to explain to him what is the effect of each individual camera movement. Knowing that, he will be empowered to make even crazier images, or realize that he's "makin' a mess" as was said above.

It's fun for a while to randomly use a technical tool, and it's a great means of discovery, but after that, you need to understand how it works to make it useful, expand your abilities, find your own voice, or deepen the implementation of your intentions.

Random is only really fun at the beginning. After that, it tends to turn into a frustration, because you can't reproduce that really cool random thing you did earlier.

removed account4 · Dec 7, 2009

Leighgion said:
I should have mentioned before that frankly unrealistic distortion of images is rooted in an artistic traditional that's had far-reaching artistic influences: German Expressionism.

Call it a matter of varying taste, but if I had a 21-year-old son, I'd think he was much cooler trying to make his own Caligari images rather than wanting to be just like Ansel Adams.

leigh,

you can say THAT again!

Leighgion · Dec 7, 2009

jnanian said:
leigh,

you can say THAT again!

Yeah, Wiene could take Adams.

SchwinnParamount · Dec 7, 2009

Stephen Frizza said:
can we see the image he made?

You will be able to see his images after he prints them. I've got an old flatbed scanner that will do the trick. He expects to be in the darkroom this coming weeking. I'll encourage him to join APUG and post in his own gallery.

SchwinnParamount · Dec 7, 2009

markbarendt said:
Never, Never, Never take the initiative here.

Answer his questions succinctly, don't expand on the answers, let him enjoy it his way.

I like your answer here. You say what other folks are saying but you say it in a way that both resonates with me and hits the point exactly.

SchwinnParamount · Dec 7, 2009

jp80874 said:
I don't know. Three of mine have a front and rear standard. The fourth, a macro 8x10 with 60 inchs of bellows has a middle standard as well. I have always been fond of the middle ground where you can take a look while the ones at the end take the beating.

John Powers

Tee hee hee. Good one John.

SchwinnParamount · Dec 7, 2009

olleorama said:
You are very welcome to adopt me. I will follow your guidance very closely when you are accompanying me if you are willing to donate the before mentioned photographic equipment. Please contact me and my lawyer for details in our service level agreement.

Regards.

EDIT: And judging by your name you could mentor me in road racing too, or at least sponsor me.

You wouldn't want the sort of racing frame I'd buy for you as an adopted son. I still love steel and race on a hand-made Italian steel lugged frame made by Antonio Mondonico (Moltini orange of course). Most of the Tuesday night masters racers ride carbon and of course, I don't. My favorite course is one with long steep hills. Me and my steel rig pass those non-climbers on their carbon frames too easily.

jeroldharter · Dec 7, 2009

I agree, that sounds like fun. I remember overdosing on Cokin star filters and motion artifacts at that age. After awhile though, randomness ceases to be interesting or creative. At that point he will be more receptive to learning the craft of photography and he will consider it an enhancement to creativity rather than a hindrance.

SchwinnParamount · Dec 23, 2009

Update: My son finally printed from his 4x5 negatives tonight. 11x14 Ilford MG fiber paper in a warm tone developer. We'll scan them in our old flatbed tomorrow. Interestingly enough, when I asked him if he was starting to appreciate the 4x5, he told me that he is particularly interested in the selective depth of field achievable using "weird" movements.

What happened to "I before E, except after C"? Weird, Wierd.

keithwms · Dec 23, 2009

If he likes selective focus then he could try to shoot straight and throw the focus at the enlarger...

raucousimages · Dec 28, 2009

SchwinnParamount said:
At what point should I step in and gently direct him to the "right" way to use a LF camera?

At the point we all go into lock step and all shoot the approved "Right" way, kneel down and kiss St. Adam's butt.

Bosaiya · Dec 28, 2009

raucousimages said:
At the point we all go into lock step and all shoot the approved "Right" way, kneel down and kiss St. Adam's butt.

Your dissident humor has been duly noted. Please report to Mount Ansel Adams in the Ansel Adams Wilderness for re-edumecation.

Why did my son make THAT camera movement?

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