Why couldn't there be a magazine for film photography?

tim_walls said:

I love the idea, and I'm really not intending to 'get' at you because I know 95% of APUG members will doubtless agree with you and not me, so please take this in a spirit of inquiry, but...

I really, really don't understand this concept - which is endemic throughout APUG from the visual design of the website through the content of its galleries and discussions - that colour is somehow a second class citizen.

As in, I really don't understand it. It's completely beyond me why it would cross anyone's mind to treat colour differently to B&W if you're talking about a magazine devoted to film photography.


(This doesn't mean I object to magazines about black and white photography; if that your favoured aesthetic go right ahead. But the idea that a magazine about film should feature colour as some kind of once yearly bone to be thrown mystifies me.)

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Color instantly reminds me of the kind of photography I hate: saturated color landscapes with lurid red sunsets over water. In other words, calendar art. Black and white is just more subtle and spiritual by nature. And none of my favorite photographers messed with color to any great extent.

Christopher Walrath said:

I can offer insight into this in a couple of months. We will be getting Lulu printing done and I can pass on what we have learned.

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Considering the investment of time which you have already made, it is your enterprise which should go ahead with some publications via Lulu--not some new entity. And regardless of what you have so generously said, another Lulu publication WOULD be competition.

Chazzy said:

Color instantly reminds me of the kind of photography I hate: saturated color landscapes with lurid red sunsets over water. In other words, calendar art. Black and white is just more subtle and spiritual by nature. And none of my favorite photographers messed with color to any great extent.

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I can understand where you're coming from, but I think that there is a beauty in some colour images. Could you imagine the work of Steve McCurry without colour? Or perhaps Erwin Blumenfeld - even if his work was from black and white film. There are times when colour can be used to great effect, but calendar art is a no-no.

Like I've mentioned elsewhere, I'm a bit of a noob with much to learn. But I have learned something this week that makes me really want to see a print magazine: monitor calibration. My own photographs look drastically different to me on different computers. The two computers that I do my work flow on are drastically different from one another, and both of them are drastically different from what other people are seeing.

With the printed process, assuming you're working with a professional with calibrated hardware, you have more reasonable assurance that viewers will see your work the way it was intended. Right now I'm sort of figuratively sitting in a corner shaking with shame because I realized my scanned negatives look like crap on 80% of the machines out there (too dark).

I really think that this should be a quarterly publication with nothing but photo essays, portfolios, and projects. No technique or how-to stuff, just the images. This way it would leave the technique stuff to Creative Image Maker, which I hear is going to get some great stuff, and this would just be almost like a book. There wouldn't be any real competition between the two and they would, perhaps, complement each other. They also won't have the same images, obviously, which also limits how the two ventures would compete. What does everyone think of this?

..

I've had a fair bit of experience in publishing, as both a designer and editor/publisher, so I'll tell you my thoughts relative to my previous experience.

The economic climate for magazines today has been bad for a while, and now with the recession is very bad. I would highly advise staying far away from the traditional model of ad-supported, newsstand-distributed magazines. Many long-published magazines are failing hard, and more will do so in the future.

Subscriptions, as other folks have pointed out, are problematic. Selling subscriptions will be difficult (buyers have to put out a fair amount of money for something they won't receive for a while), and you have the problem of what to do if the publication fails before the subscriptions are fully fulfilled. Anyway, subscriptions are much less important now that a magazine can be published via POD. Given sufficient marketing, you can just publicize each issue, and have the POD site (eg, Lulu) handle all the sales, printing, and shipping.

In order to have a successful, ongoing publication, you'll need the following:

• a clear definition of the audience of the magazine
• a mission statement, vision, or concept that's easily described
• submission guidelines that clearly state both editorial and technical requirements for work submitted
• a design template or style guide so the publication has a consistent and attractive look
• a production plan that is compatible with a POD printer (eg, "InDesign with PDF/X output")
• a plan for outreach, for both contributors and readers
• a publication schedule, related to the frequency of the magazine
  • editorial calendar, listing themes or subjects for the next few issues
  • submission deadlines (the last date of submissions for an issue)
  • production deadlines (when the issue starts to be laid out by the designer)
  • print deadlines (when it's sent to the POD printer)
• an agreed-upon financial model, which takes into account operating costs, publishing costs (if any), and taxes
• a small but committed group of people who will lead this effort

You'll have to make a decision about how the business runs financially. If any money comes in (whether through advertising, sponsorship, or profits on sales), someone will have to pay taxes, or at least file them. If this is run by a group of people, it gets complicated very fast. If the intent is some sort of cooperative venture, then setting up an LLC would be a solution. If there's one person out there who's the primary operator, and can get volunteers to do the other work, it could be run as a sole proprietorship.

Alternatively, you might consider running it as a kind of "open source" magazine: avoid advertising or other income, open the editorial and publishing process up to a community of people with various skills, and publish the magazine with zero profit addition (eg, if Lulu charges $8.94 to print the magazine, then that's the "cover" price).

As other posters here have stated, I'd recommend not emphasizing B&W over color. Most POD printers will print all pages in CMYK color anyway, so there is no technical or economic reason to restrict the content to B&W. Of course, there may be editorial reasons: perhaps a B&W-themed issue, or a color Polaroid(-like) issue.

the folks at the large format forum have had a few pod books published,
and i the rangefinder people have as well.
there is always a problem with image quality ( as ann pointed out )
there is a huge give and take when you go low - budget pod,
instead of something a little ( make that a lot ) more expensive.

it's a great idea stephanie, but a large undertaking ...
and as others have suggested the whole emulsion-thing has left some people
a bit gun-shy ...

Perhaps as penance to temper my long message above about the difficulties of magazine publishing, I can offer a simpler idea:

Try it out once. Don't push it as a periodical, but do approach it as a magazine. Work through submissions, articles, etc., lay out the content, make a PDF, send it off to Lulu, and sell it for no (or little) profit. Publicize it, and see if it sells.

If it works once, try it again. After a couple of times, you'll know whether or not you can continue with it as a regularly-published magazine.

jslabovitz said:

I've had a fair bit of experience in publishing, as both a designer and editor/publisher, so I'll tell you my thoughts relative to my previous experience.

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You put my ideas better than I could, thank you.

Alternatively, you might consider running it as a kind of "open source" magazine: avoid advertising or other income, open the editorial and publishing process up to a community of people with various skills, and publish the magazine with zero profit addition (eg, if Lulu charges $8.94 to print the magazine, then that's the "cover" price).

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This was pretty much my idea. Profit isn't really something I had in mind. If there was any profit from it, I'd planned it to go to APUG or another group that supported analog photography. I didn't want to do any advertising in the magazine because it's not about selling other people's stuff. The idea is to bring a publication to the table, whether we call it a magazine or something completely separate from that industry, that gives film photographers a place to show their work in print among like-minded peers.

In order to have a successful, ongoing publication, you'll need the following:

• a clear definition of the audience of the magazine
• a mission statement, vision, or concept that's easily described
• submission guidelines that clearly state both editorial and technical requirements for work submitted
• a design template or style guide so the publication has a consistent and attractive look
• a production plan that is compatible with a POD printer (eg, "InDesign with PDF/X output")
• a plan for outreach, for both contributors and readers
• a publication schedule, related to the frequency of the magazine
  • editorial calendar, listing themes or subjects for the next few issues
  • submission deadlines (the last date of submissions for an issue)
  • production deadlines (when the issue starts to be laid out by the designer)
  • print deadlines (when it's sent to the POD printer)
• an agreed-upon financial model, which takes into account operating costs, publishing costs (if any), and taxes
• a small but committed group of people who will lead this effort

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I've taken all this down in a notebook and I'm coming up with things now. Thank you very, very much.

I really do think that this should be tried. Don't know if something can be done without doing that, at least.

I'll work on it today as much as I can and post when I have some concrete things worked out. If people like the ideas we can go into more conversation.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained...or so that famous quote does go.

Oh, yeah, and one more thing I forgot to add.

By film photography I really just mean traditional. I don't want to leave out the wet and dry platers around here, or the paper negative bunch.

jslabovitz said:

In order to have a successful, ongoing publication, you'll need the following:

• a clear definition of the audience of the magazine
• a mission statement, vision, or concept that's easily described
• submission guidelines that clearly state both editorial and technical requirements for work submitted
• a design template or style guide so the publication has a consistent and attractive look
• a production plan that is compatible with a POD printer (eg, "InDesign with PDF/X output")
• a plan for outreach, for both contributors and readers
• a publication schedule, related to the frequency of the magazine
  • editorial calendar, listing themes or subjects for the next few issues
  • submission deadlines (the last date of submissions for an issue)
  • production deadlines (when the issue starts to be laid out by the designer)
  • print deadlines (when it's sent to the POD printer)
• an agreed-upon financial model, which takes into account operating costs, publishing costs (if any), and taxes
• a small but committed group of people who will lead this effort

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Thank you for posting this. This could even come in handy for CiM to reevaluate and see where we want to go.

So, APUG, are we to do it? All hands on deck, manning the presses to produce a quality magazine?

I'll happily say right now that (much as my busy schedule of exams is very densely packed this year) I'd love to take on a responsibility like cover design, and would be happy to add the odd photo essay or article from time to time. If there is enough support and a name is settled upon, if i get the approval of whoever will become the natural leader of this project, i'll mock something up

Stephanie Brim said:

Why should it stop people from trying?

Why does a magazine *have* to require expertise?

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I'm sorry if my post upset you. Yet, another one that detailed what I was refering to by "expertise" seemed to be better received. I was not trying to discourage you, but to comment on the fact that it does take some knowledge. Um, just like photography, for instance ...

It would be worth seeing what Sam Portera did to publish his book through print on demand. The results were pretty good for the two copies I bought. And I would like to see some technical input in the form of how to articles from PE and others who are already writing such things for publication here. After a ten hour workday of meetings interspersed with answering email I would much prefer to read a nicely printed copy than read the same material online.

...and to attract the international readers, maybe you could spell it "colour" every once in awhile.

Hehe, colour it is!

Maybe.

Lots to do. If people want to PM or email with ideas and other things you can. I'm going to work on a few things tonight after I get Rinoa to bed. I have a notebook dedicated to the project now, plus an Open Office document that I'm writing up detailing my original ideas for the magazine.

I have the webspace, domain and all, if we like the name. Fractured Light. You'll have to tell me if it works or not.

Cool name, Steph.

Why?

Just curious. Brainstorming and all.

It just sounds nice to me. Capturing fragments of light on film. I suppose it works.

I just lost a half hour chunk of writing on this because my browser decided to be stupid. UGH. Bear with me and I'll have what I was going to say up.

Initial ideas for the publication.

This post will be a coherent explanation of the brainstorming of ideas I had toward this venture, and a call for the submission of any ideas you may have to improve upon the points explained here.

Mission Statement

My original vision was a magazine that showed film photography with accompanying technical articles and opinion pieces. I've since had second thoughts about doing that. The technical articles being written for Creative Image Maker are very good and I believe that we don't need two publications serving that information. Rather, I feel that we need a publication that boldly serves only traditional photography in a style that could almost be considered a serial on-fiction book; a quarterly publication of photo essays, projects, and writings on non-technical aspects of photography.

The reasons for this are many, but the main and most important reason is that it isn't really being done. There isn't a magazine that boldly shows only traditional photography in a raw, uncensored form. The magazine would have no themes. There would be no censorship of images. The photography would be drawn from a variety of artists doing things in a variety of ways. There would be no requirement for words to accompany the photography.

So, the mission: to publish a quarterly magazine of traditional photography and alternative processes that boldly shows the wide scope of art that we are producing, and shows the world that film isn't going to die anytime soon.

Publishing

While I'd love to have this printed traditionally as well, it probably isn't possible. We've seen that with Emulsion. Managing something like that would be too difficult while the magazine is still in its infancy, and trying to do it from the get-go may actually find us ending up as Emulsion did. I don't want that to happen. So while it doesn't have to be forever, the plan is to use Lulu or another PoD publisher to do our printing.

This will ensure that only the amount we need will be printed, which will keep costs down.

Another thing that would keep costs down is if the magazine was done on a volunteer basis. I'm going to read up on the legalities, but from what was said above it would be a good idea.

This part of the whole thing is still up in the air. It's the part that I haven't really had time to research yet enough yet.

Content

As above, in the mission, I'd like this to be an art magazine that dedicates itself to film and other traditional methods of photography along with projects that include traditional photography. Photo essays, cross sections of long projects, short projects, portfolios of work. Color, B&W, alternative process. Non-technical writings on photography can also be considered for content, and each artist will be able to write a bit about their contribution to the magazine. This can evolve and change as more ideas come in, just like everything else.

Conclusion of thoughts so far

This is all I've come up with so far. Just trying to restate a few of my ideas in a more coherent so that it's easier to get feedback. People can email me here about anything concerning this project, or you can PM me as well.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts.

I like the idea but I would like to suggest one thing:

If it's going to be print on demand then don't have any set publishing dates.

Initially you will have a lot of material and ideas but this will slow down a bit. I would just keep working until the next issue available then anounce that it is ready for purchase.

This way you do not suddenly have any deadlines to meet.



Steve.

That's a good idea as well. I thought about it while I was writing that down.

Personally I would leave the pictures out of it and make it a technical publication covering cameras, lenses, methodology, tutorials etc. Then any Joe Smo that wanted to contribute and do a lens test could publish his or her findings or someone could review a camera, LF or what not with the history, specifications etc. A lot of the talk around here centers on technical issues, developing formulas, lens resolutions, camera features and the ever constant "what should I buy" questions. A combined effort by all to either share their expertise or by contributing to a quarterly effort would make the publication worth collecting. If you must have images you'd be better off linking them thru the internet or from the gallery. Informative graphs are easier to publish and contain info that all would enjoy saving, and articles on emulsion making would be very welcome. Even image support for such articles need not be high end stuff.

jslabovitz said:

I would highly advise staying far away from the traditional model of ad-supported, newsstand-distributed magazines. Many long-published magazines are failing hard, and more will do so in the future.

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I would second this; my own experience in magazine publishing (now 10+ years ago) tells me that a project like this would get KILLED on the newsstand, assuming you could even get there. The production expense would be too high; you couldn't afford to lose money on the returns. You might be able to do limited, hand-picked specialty distribution.

jslabovitz said:

As other posters here have stated, I'd recommend not emphasizing B&W over color. Most POD printers will print all pages in CMYK color anyway, so there is no technical or economic reason to restrict the content to B&W. Of course, there may be editorial reasons: perhaps a B&W-themed issue, or a color Polaroid(-like) issue.

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The only thing I'd add to this is that looking at Lulu's pricing, I'd think you'd actually save money going to conventional printing once your circulation was more than a 500 or 1000 copies or so. Of course, that means inventory, storage, and distribution hassles (or paying someone to deal with them). Some years ago I used These guys to do some book covers, and found they were pretty good for relatively inexpensive short-run color.