Why can't I use my RC print washer with FB?

[Chris Nielsen]

Hi all

I print on Ilford RC paper currently and I feel I might be ready to move to fiber paper. What concerns me is the equipment I might need. I have seen references to special print washing devices and dry mount presses, and to be honest the gear sounds frighteningly large and expensive.

I currently use a Paterson RC print washer that runs water over two 8x10 prints. Works great, why can't I use that with fiber? Or do I have to buy some fancy print washer for vast amounts of money?

And what's with needing a press? Can I use a couple sheets of glass or something instead?

Thanks!

 

[Stan160]

You don't need a washer or a press, although many people find them useful and I guess they become essential once your printing rate reaches a certain throughput.

Fibre prints can be washed in trays, just change the water every few minutes and agitate gently now and again. Everyone has their own opinion about how long, how many changes of water, and how much agitation, but the bottom line is if you test the washed prints with HT-2 test solution and the residual thiosulphate levels are low enough then you have a process that works.

Air drying prints clipped back to back, then flattening underneath a stack of heavy books for a few days gets them almost completely flat without the need for a press.

Ian

 

[Doremus Scudder]

If your washer allows you to bathe your prints in fresh running water for the correct amount of time, it will work fine for fiber-base prints. The problem is that your washer (like most RC washers) has a very small capacity, meaning that you will have a bottleneck in your processing workflow. Waiting an hour for two 8x10 prints to wash before adding the next two might crimp your style. If you just want to experiment or make a few fiber-base prints from time to time, no problem. If you, like me, find that fiber-base paper is just the only way to go because it is so much richer in appearance than RC, you may want to invest later in a multi-slot design print washer that holds 12 or so prints at a time. Versalab makes good, serviceable and relatively inexpensive ones.

As for the dry-mount press: it is used to mount prints onto backing board using a heat-activated adhesive tissue. Fiber-base prints curl when dry and need to be held flat for display. Although some hang prints with adhesive tape and flatten them with an overmat, they still have a tendency to curl and bubble. Many of us prefer the very flat presentation of a dry-mounted print.

For drying fiber-base prints, it is best to use screens, placing the squeegeed prints face-up (not down, as some recommend) and let them air dry. It takes a long time; several hours on a dry, warm day, in contrast to RC prints, which dry in a few minutes under the hairdryer.

As far as flattening dry prints goes, just stack them carefully (e.g., no dust or grit on the print surfaces!) under a piece of mat board weighted with books or whatever and let them sit for a couple days. Glass might adhere to the emulsion or cause shiny areas, so don't use it to flatten prints with.

Hope this helps

Doremus Scudder
www.DoremusScudder.com

 

[Chris Nielsen]

Thanks guys, been out of town and just got your replies now. Cheers for that!

 

[dancqu]

"No Running Water, No Agitation"

To finnish Fred Picker's Quote: "Archival washing
requires time, clean water, and print separation"

Actually I was practicing the still water diffusion method
of washing prior to finding that quote by Fred Picker. I'm
quite sure he had a vertical arrangement in mind though
I've found a horizontal arrangement to work quite well.
Two trays and separators of polyester batting material
are all the equipment needed. With trays, about $2.

For those using fixer in the usual way the prints after
fixing should be rinsed, hypo cleared, then placed in
the first wash tray.

I usually have a bottom separator and some water
in the wash tray ready for the first print. Separators
and prints alternate as the tray is filled. Add water as
needed. I conserve water by transferring it from first
to second tray. The next transfer uses fresh water.
That transfer and one more will produce a wash
meeting 'archival' standards, provided that the
fixer is also used to 'archival standards. Dan

 

[John Koehrer]

David Vestal did some tests in his darkroom & found diffusion to be so efficient that on his first experiencehe sent a sample out to a lab for confirmation of his findings.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Your Patterson washer will work fine for FB. There is no big deal about fiber paper. Most of us grew up with FB, RC not in existence at the time, and don't really understand what all the fuss is about. It's RC that's the odd duck with it's peculiar processing requirements.

The most water efficient method, as several have noted, is just several changes of water in a large tray, occasional agitation. A change every 10 minutes or so over a period of 40 minutes works fine for me (that's with HCA).

You should get some hypo clearing agent, Kodak's is the standard, but a tablespoon of S. Sulfite in a quart of water works just about as well. It doesn't keep, after about an hour or two in a tray you should dump it.

To make sure your print washing is effective you can get some test solution, or make up your own from S. Nitrate and Acetic Acid. The formula and all that are on the www http://www.photokb.com/Uwe/Forum.aspx/photo-darkroom/3094/Which-wash-check-to-use

 

[MattKing]

... Most of us grew up with FB, RC not in existence at the time, and don't really understand what all the fuss is about. It's RC that's the odd duck with it's peculiar processing requirements.

Thanks Nicholas - it is rare that I get a chance to say that I am too young to be included in the group .

Actually, I have my feet in both camps. I started with FB, but went to RC when it became commonplace, and in terms of time, have printed more on RC.

Anyone here who is 40 or younger may very well have never printed on FB.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

Interleave prints in a tray while a second is filling, then move them to the new tray one at a time and then reverse the whole thing.

This uses less and cleaner water than any printwasher that only dilutes out serveral gallons. One can not guarantee there is ever 100% fresh water in one of them

 

[dancqu]

Running Water Slot Washers?

I've never used a slot washer but know that
there are design differences. Most have water
interring at one end and out the other. With that
being the type and it being an 8 slot washer what
is the water usage per print if only 4 prints are
being washed? Twice the water per print?

Secondly, are the prints moved forward slot by
slot as each print most near the source of fresh
water reaches it's adequate wash time? Dan