Who's left?

[Lee Shively]

I'm with you too, Neal. In the Forte thread, I said I'd take up knitting. As I think about it more, I'll go back to birdwatching. That way I can still use high quality optics and I'll get to travel and be outside a lot.

 

[Aggie]

You never know what opportunities exist when you talk about a demise.

BTW the white building in the back if this were a large print says "mini storage". You can save all your stock piles of film in this rental.

 

[Ed Sukach]

I wonder if there is evidence of a "stabilization" now. There seemed to be an avalanche of those converting to "digital" from the traditional film-chemistry process, but, apparently, there are those who are progressing beyond the "lemming" phase, and, recognizing some distinct advantages to certain uses of the "old" system, are returning to film. In news, and stuff like Real Estate and used Car ads, and most probably, "Weekend Snapshots From Disneyland", digital reigns supreme. In Fine Art, a LOT of the Magazine Advertising, and' surprisingly, Wedding Photography, film is making a DEFINITE comeback.

Interesting - I recently received a "freebie" copy of a magazine entitled "Great Output" - subtitle: "The official publication of the Professional Digital Imaging Association". This is a - really not bad - magazine dedicated to the intricacies of Digital Printing. There are articles such as "The State of the FINE ART of black and white printmaking"; "Understanding Color Management"; "That's a Good Question - Ink-fixative for canvas? Sharpening the 16-bit" Onyx RIP vs Qimage?"

The cover is interesting as well - Photographer Clyde Butcher who sells prints of this image he captured in Ten Thousand Islands, Everglades National Park in Florida." - Seems that I've heard his name around here before.

Significant is the fact that the great majority of images here have been captured ON FILM. Clyde Butcher is featured here "Using his 1940's Deardorf camera, he shoots large-format negatives. These range in size from 4 x 5 to 11 x 14 in. Then he scans in negative format while working in Photoshop..."
Others: "This image was shot on T-Max 400 film using a Mamiya 7II"; "Hasselblad with an 80mm lens and Plus-X film; "Fujica 645W with Ilford FP-5 film..." There is mention of a photographer who "Shoots digital about 65% of the time, and uses film for the rest."
Of all the images in this magazine - and please note what should be a STRONG "digital" bias - only one can be identified as the output from a digital CAMERA.

I wonder - Instead of the "Death of Film", is there a "Resurrection of Film" in store for the near future? Are the large film companies making the VERY large mistake of assuming that present trends are always infallible predictors of the future ...?

 

[JD Morgan]

Depends on many factors.

Achilles Heel?

 

[c6h6o3]

I am wondering if it isn't time to buy a freezer and do what Michael Smith did when Super XX was discontinued.

I'm not wondering. I know it's time.

 

[Mateo]

Have paintbrush, will adapt.

 

[bmac]

Have paintbrush, will adapt.

Awesome!

 

[Jorge]

Have paintbrush, will adapt.

Somehow, house painting does not have the same appeal to me......

 

[Donald Miller]

What's the story on Oriental Seagull? I like both their VC and graded materials. I know that Ann uses their paper too. Is that manufacturer in a healthy financial position?

 

[jandc]

There is so much rebranding that it is hard [for me] to sort it all out.
Maybe J&C can give us an idea of the state of photographic materials manufacturing.

Aside from the big players, Kodak, Fuji, Agfa and ilford there are the following.

Foma, Efke, Forte, Svema and a couple of coating facilities in China. On top of this there are several smaller coating facilities that produce speciality films for non photography use. Any of these coating facilities can produce B&W film. We have researched several of these and can asure you B&W film is not going away. What you will be seeing from us in the next year is new films being introduced. We are told Forte will overcome their production difficulties. If not we will adapt to other manufacturers. A year from now we will be offering more choices not less.

 

[Francesco]

How about an Efke PL200 and PL400? That would suit me just fine.

 

[Jorge]

Aside from the big players, Kodak, Fuji, Agfa and ilford there are the following.

Foma, Efke, Forte, Svema and a couple of coating facilities in China. On top of this there are several smaller coating facilities that produce speciality films for non photography use. Any of these coating facilities can produce B&W film. We have researched several of these and can asure you B&W film is not going away. What you will be seeing from us in the next year is new films being introduced. We are told Forte will overcome their production difficulties. If not we will adapt to other manufacturers. A year from now we will be offering more choices not less.

hmmm, well, seems giving you our support is the way to go. I am calling next week with an order and maybe some chat, love to hear what you have planned.

Oh, BTW, I second Francesco's request, please some fast film for 12x20....

 

[ann]

some of intermediate students and advanced students really like Oriental seagull, both fiber and RC. In fact after testing both Ilford and seagull they are using seagull.

so far no problems with finding it availabe and in fact one of our local camera stores told me they would start carrying it in stock. I will let you know if there is a problem in stocking the paper.

 

[photomc]

have started working with seagull recently, started with 8x10 pack/25, then ordered another plus a pack of 11x14 from one Calument. Took a while to get the 11x14 in - about 2 months, as a matter of fact. As soom as the order came in, noticed that their stock was down again. Have not checked for availability anywhere else, but it seems to sell well for them. I like it as well as Ilford, and a better when toning. Works quite well with the zone vi developer.

 

[k_jupiter]

Poisonally, I have a lot of faith in the folks at J&C. When I ran across them last year, I recognized a GOOD thing, and I am happy they have kept things pulled together to offer us, the APUG people, what we need. That said, I am amazed at the number of people that would substitute woodworking for photography. Of course, I am one of them, having aquired a mess of equipment over the years. I started woodworking when I was 9, had my first machines (a lathe and a drill press) when I was 12. This all predates my photography interest by many years.

Life is too short to worry about all this. Yes, I am pissed that Agfa dropped the finest film I have ever used, butcha know? Life goes on.

And yes, I still have that lathe and my dad still uses the drill press aquired in 1969. Just like my cameras.

tim in san jose

 

[jd callow]

I used to build ceramic sculptures.

If film goes I can go back to it.

No one will ever discontinue fire and clay.

 

[mvjim]

As some of you might know, at our lab we work with many pro photographers as well as - lets call them semi pros. What we have seen happening over the past year is a reinterest or coming back to traditional film, etc from those that bit into the digital fruit. The reasons for this, is as many of us have been saying for the past few years, is that its just not the same thing. Film offers a quality that digital can not match and the more individuals that swear by digital argue their point the more I realize that they have decided to "compromise" for that quality. Of course this has nothing to do with the corporate decissions being made as to continue producing their film and paper products. They are and have always been geared towards the commercial markets which has gone digital and will not return to where we might wish them to return. I'm old enough to remember the great Dupont panic (as was mentioned) but this is different than that bump in the road. It seems that each month we receive another announcement from a manufacture that this and that product is being discontinued or only being offered in smaller and smaller quanities or volumes. If we remove ourselves from any emotional response to the current situation and look at it realistically 20 years down the road? What would you be suggesting to some 16 year old today that was considering a career in the medium?

 

[Dean Williams]

Good to see JandC chime with some Forte news. Lately, there have been so many rumors it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Forte going under? Apparently not. Agfa dying? Wrong again, (a buy-out, with 2600 employees kept on to run the place). And 20% of Lucky bought by Kodak shouldn't been seen as a bad thing either. Kodak is still making Tri-x, TMY, TMX, and TMZ in the USA by the way, (couldn't find out about PX). Ilford's struggling and seem to be the only "maybe" in the group. It doesn't look like all bad news, folks. I'm not thinking about a backup hobby...I've got too many photos to make.

 

[jandc]

How about an Efke PL200 and PL400? That would suit me just fine.

We had this exact conversation with the Efke folks yesterday at Photokina. It's a possibility that is on the table.

 

[Francesco]

We had this exact conversation with the Efke folks yesterday at Photokina. It's a possibility that is on the table.

Fingers officially crossed. Good luck John.

 

[Art Vandalay]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but what is surprising me the most is how many of you are talking about giving up photography if you can't use 'analog' materials!! I despise digital as much as anyone (just ask my unfortunate digital acquaintances) but my true love is photography, not film/paper. Woodworking, ceramics, painting etc etc don't even come close to photography for me. Hopefully there will always be analog supplies but I would never give up photography if they disappeared.

 

[Shmoo]

Ann/Photomc -

Try Freestyle for the Oriental. Their shop always seems to have a good selection of sizes, types and grades.

S

 

[photomc]

Ann/Photomc -

Try Freestyle for the Oriental. Their shop always seems to have a good selection of sizes, types and grades.

S

Thanks Shmoo, main reason for using Calumet, at the time they were only sponsor that had paper - now that Freestyle is a sponsor can give them a try. Have always had good luck with Calumet, this was first time had to wait on anything.

 

[Mateo]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but what is surprising me the most is how many of you are talking about giving up photography if you can't use 'analog' materials!! I despise digital as much as anyone (just ask my unfortunate digital acquaintances) but my true love is photography, not film/paper. Woodworking, ceramics, painting etc etc don't even come close to photography for me. Hopefully there will always be analog supplies but I would never give up photography if they disappeared.

My true love is art and I happen to choose photography right now. I took it up because my dentist had some original Edward Weston/Cole Weston prints and I saw something that could only be done with a camera. Should the very thing that drew me to the medium in the first place disapear, of course I would move on. But film ain't dead yet.

 

[Nicole]

Kodak closing down in Australia

In the olden days, like 6 months ago, we all figured the smaller players (I lumped Ilford into that category) would be the last to get out of the film business and we could buy there.

I was wrong. Buy Kodak!

Kodak is closing down in Australia