Who makes Ultrafine, Ultrafine Plus, and Ultrafine Xtreme Films?

Disconnekt · Jan 24, 2020

I know I'm reviving an old thread, but found some info (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_photographic_films, scroll down to Ultrafine) on who does the coating (and possibly making) of the their film, a company called "GenAmerican United Corporation" (http://www.genamericaunited.com/home). On their site they say "From Master Roll manufacturing and converting to 35mm Films for Photography, a full spectrum of products for any and all applications", and they're located literally down the street from Photo Warehouse!

AgX · Jan 24, 2020

ToddB said:
dont waste your time with the [Ultrafine] 120 100 ISO films.. just aweful. It's imprinted with frame number and dots all over the film. Very disappointing.

Is/was that a case of backing paper imprint transfer ??

abruzzi · Jan 24, 2020

Disconnekt said:
they're located literally down the street from Photo Warehouse!

This page suggests that they are Photo Warehouse:

http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Photo-Warehouse-805-988-9556

It would seem a little unusual that PW would have their own coating and finishing capability, and nobody knows about it, but I guess it's possible.

pentaxuser · Jan 24, 2020

abruzzi said:
This page suggests that they are Photo Warehouse:

http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Photo-Warehouse-805-988-9556

It would seem a little unusual that PW would have their own coating and finishing capability, and nobody knows about it, but I guess it's possible.

Yes it does seem a little unusual but you never know. Have you seen my reference to a new American film similar to Ilford Ortho 80 Plus which is called Orthodox Republican 80 Plus. I like the name the more I write it down Isn't there a theory that the more you say or write the same thing then the more true it becomes?

The Orthodox Republican stuff may be fake news. There is a lot of it around it seems

pentaxuser

Kino · Jan 24, 2020

Disconnekt said:
I know I'm reviving an old thread, but found some info (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_photographic_films, scroll down to Ultrafine) on who does the coating (and possibly making) of the their film, a company called "GenAmerican United Corporation" (http://www.genamericaunited.com/home). On their site they say "From Master Roll manufacturing and converting to 35mm Films for Photography, a full spectrum of products for any and all applications", and they're located literally down the street from Photo Warehouse!

How they manage to run a coating line in California with their strict emissions rules mystifies me...

Toasty · Jan 24, 2020

Wow, they state they do custom contract coating, that's very surprising. It could be that they take orders and have it coated elsewhere (cough, in the UK). Although if they could do it all in house that could explain the low cost, no international shipping.

I used to live in Oxnard and it's close to Hollywood and what used to be a big movie studio in Ventura, so I suppose it's possible they have a mini coater hidden away somewhere. There is a lot of weird heavy industry pockets in the area but the address they have listed is in a generic office park, I doubt there's a coater in there.

abruzzi · Jan 24, 2020

pentaxuser said:
Yes it does seem a little unusual but you never know. Have you seen my reference to a new American film similar to Ilford Ortho 80 Plus which is called Orthodox Republican 80 Plus. I like the name the more I write it down Isn't there a theory that the more you say or write the same thing then the more true it becomes?

in the end, while I understand the desire to know who actually makes the film, I’m just happy knowing that I like the 100 and dislike the 400. It’s some of the cheapest film you can buy in the US, especially if you buy bulk 135, so that’s good enough for me.

pentaxuser · Jan 24, 2020

abruzzi said:
in the end, while I understand the desire to know who actually makes the film, I’m just happy knowing that I like the 100 and dislike the 400. It’s some of the cheapest film you can buy in the US, especially if you buy bulk 135, so that’s good enough for me.

I agree with these sentiments you express. I just get concerned that plain old fashioned honesty seems to be less valued than it once was. It seems to be seen as much as a weakness as it is seen as a virtue

pentaxuser

foc · Jan 24, 2020

http://www.genamericaunited.com/home
The website looks very dated and basic and the copyright 2010 doesn't give it a very contemporary look.

Maybe HenningSerger could comment on this as he has a lot of knowledge regarding who does coating and film manufacturing.

I personally think that rebranded B&W film comes from either Foma or Harman/Ilford. (not too sure Lucky is still in the business)

removed account4 · Jan 24, 2020

foc said:
I personally think that rebranded B&W film comes from either Foma or Harman/Ilford. (not too sure Lucky is still in the business)

+1

dourbalistar · Jan 25, 2020

abruzzi said:
in the end, while I understand the desire to know who actually makes the film, I’m just happy knowing that I like the 100 and dislike the 400. It’s some of the cheapest film you can buy in the US, especially if you buy bulk 135, so that’s good enough for me.

I've not tried the 100, but what do you dislike about the 400, abruzzi? I'm about halfway through a bulk roll of the 400, and I find it to be excellent. That said, I agree with you - whoever makes the film, I just hope that they can keep it in production and in stock. Bulk rolls of the 400 have been out of stock on the Photo Warehouse website since the end of 2019.

Lanline · Jan 25, 2020

I shoot both the 100 and 400 films, almost exclusively, since 2015 averaging 190 rolls a year. I've never had any issues with their films. The box says it's made in the EU.

Lanline · Jan 25, 2020

foc said:
http://www.genamericaunited.com/home
The website looks very dated and basic and the copyright 2010 doesn't give it a very contemporary look.

Maybe HenningSerger could comment on this as he has a lot of knowledge regarding who does coating and film manufacturing.

I personally think that rebranded B&W film comes from either Foma or Harman/Ilford. (not too sure Lucky is still in the business)

I would wager that it's a Harmon product. The box says made in the EU and the film has a Kentmere quality to it.

Henning Serger · Jan 25, 2020

foc said:
http://www.genamericaunited.com/home
The website looks very dated and basic and the copyright 2010 doesn't give it a very contemporary look.

Maybe HenningSerger could comment on this as he has a lot of knowledge regarding who does coating and film manufacturing.

I personally think that rebranded B&W film comes from either Foma or Harman/Ilford. (not too sure Lucky is still in the business)

Hello Felim,
I've never heard of them having a coating line with industrial scale quality coating. It is very unlikely that such a coating facility exists there. I understand the text in a way that they have contact to companies who have the ability to make emulsion and coating. And I agree with you, this website also looks quite old and outdated.
I have not tested these films.
Some who have done that say the current films are very similar to the Kentmeres. It is not difficult to test and evaluate that:
- Evaluating the characteristic curve (sensitometric tests with a densitometer)
- Doing a test with a resolution test chart (evaluating resolution, sharpness, grain)
- Photographing light sources and strong reflections: Because both Kentmere films have a quite unique characteristic: Slight halos around light sources and reflections. Their AHU (antihalation undercoat) is not as good as that of the Ilford films (which don't have that Halo problem). That is one reason why the Kentmeres are cheaper: cost reduction, lower quality level. You get what you pay for.
This Halo effect is also one way why it is quite easy to identify other Kentmere repackagings like for example AgfaPhoto APX 100/400, Rollei RPX 100/400, Fotoimpex CHM 100/400 (well, Fotoimpex was always very honest and told their customers that fact).

Concerning Lucky: After an interruption they had started SW film production again. SHD 100 is currently available. And Lucky has never stopped production of (cheap) CN RA-5 photopaper.

Best regards,
Hennning

abruzzi · Jan 25, 2020

dourbalistar said:
I've not tried the 100, but what do you dislike about the 400, abruzzi? I'm about halfway through a bulk roll of the 400, and I find it to be excellent. That said, I agree with you - whoever makes the film, I just hope that they can keep it in production and in stock. Bulk rolls of the 400 have been out of stock on the Photo Warehouse website since the end of 2019.

mostly it’s too grainy for my taste, and the grain is too regular (like TV static). I generally prefer slower films anyway.

dourbalistar · Jan 26, 2020

Lanline said:
I shoot both the 100 and 400 films, almost exclusively, since 2015 averaging 190 rolls a year. I've never had any issues with their films. The box says it's made in the EU.

Others like you also suspect it's a Harman product. If that's the case, I wonder what the box will say post-Brexit. Made in the UK?

abruzzi said:
mostly it’s too grainy for my taste, and the grain is too regular (like TV static). I generally prefer slower films anyway.

I mostly shoot 400 speed films, and I find the 400 pretty fine grained as far as it goes. But I get it, taste is personal, and I'm sure you have plenty of sunlight down in New Mexico to take advantage of slower films.

foc · Jan 26, 2020

dourbalistar said:
Others like you also suspect it's a Harman product. If that's the case, I wonder what the box will say post-Brexit. Made in the UK?

Yes just like the new Fuji Acros II.

mgb74 · Jan 26, 2020

dourbalistar said:
Others like you also suspect it's a Harman product. If that's the case, I wonder what the box will say post-Brexit. Made in the UK? ...

That's my guess. Though I don't know exactly what "made" means in this case. I would think - at a minimum - the film stock is coated in the UK even if slitting and packaging is done elsewhere. Though I don't know that it makes economic sense to do that. I'm in the Harmon/Ilford camp.

dourbalistar · Jan 26, 2020

foc said:
Yes just like the new Fuji Acros II.

Maybe Ilford was busy making Acros II for Fujifilm and that's why bulk rolls of Ultrafine eXtreme 400 are out of stock at Photo Warehouse.

mgb74 · Jan 26, 2020

dourbalistar said:
Maybe Ilford was busy making Acros II for Fujifilm and that's why bulk rolls of Ultrafine eXtreme 400 are out of stock at Photo Warehouse.

Actually, if Ultrafine is made by Harmon (and I think it is), then it's very likely that production by them is done in batches and scheduled long in advance. So demand must be forecasted and forecasts are never perfect.

removed account4 · Jan 26, 2020

PW/UF has a long history of private labelling ilford / harman products. the rebranding game has been alive and well for a long time
https://www.largeformatphotography....hp?11217-Forte-Efke-J-C-Freestyle-100-200-400

Disconnekt · Jan 26, 2020

mgb74 said:
Actually, if Ultrafine is made by Harmon (and I think it is), then it's very likely that production by them is done in batches and scheduled long in advance. So demand must be forecasted and forecasts are never perfect.

I'm thinking that like you said, Harmon sends over uncoated Kentmere 100 & 400 film in batches & Ultrafine coats it themselfs/has GenAmerica coat it for them.

Adrian Bacon · Jan 27, 2020

MartinP said:
Ricardo, if you have the money Harman will make you your very own, personal, unique film. They will produce any special thing for anyone, but they have been very consistent that they will not sell their Ilford brand films (FP4+ etc.) as white-label products. It is certainly possible that Ultrafine purchase large orders of specially prepared and packed products from Harman. Or it might be that they are supplied by Foma, or that the 35mm is something originating further East.

I've tried the Shanghai GP3 in 120, out of curiosity, and found that the numbers can indeed transfer from the backing paper. Initially I hadn't noticed the effect, so it could be related to the ageing of the film, amongst other factors? I'm assuming that this 'feature' is not un-related to the disastrous rollfilm product mentioned above . . .

I don't think the ultrafine extreme films are Foma, I shoot Foma films pretty extensively, and from what I've seen of Ultrafine films, they do not look the same.

mgb74 · Jan 27, 2020

Disconnekt said:
I'm thinking that like you said, Harmon sends over uncoated Kentmere 100 & 400 film in batches & Ultrafine coats it themselfs/has GenAmerica coat it for them.

No, my speculation was that IF GenAmerica was involved in the production process at all, they would receive the coated master rolls from Harmon/Ilford. The Ultrafine film box says Made in EU. I take that to mean - at a minimum - the master rolls must be coated in the EU. Before coating, it's not Kentmere (or whatever), its just film substrate.

AgX · Jan 27, 2020

Disconnekt said:
I'm thinking that like you said, Harmon sends over uncoated Kentmere 100 & 400 film in batches & Ultrafine coats it themselfs/has GenAmerica coat it for them.

,

-) What would "uncoated Kentmere 100 & 400 film" be? The emulsion? Why should Harman as complete-product supplier omit this crucial step?
Such partial productions so far went through under different constellations.

-) Where are those gelatine-emulsion coating facilities of GenAmerica?

Who makes Ultrafine, Ultrafine Plus, and Ultrafine Xtreme Films?

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