White spot on prints

RMB10 · Feb 23, 2020

Hello! I keep finding a white spot on my prints (sometimes more visible because it's on a clear sky, or on a subject's face) and I can't figure out what it's causing it.
I used different darkrooms with different lenses/enlargers ( De Vere 504 and 203) but the white spot keeps showing.
A fellow printer has had the same problem.
Does anyone know what causes it?

Many thanks!
R.

David Brown · Feb 23, 2020

Dust on the negatives.

RMB10 · Feb 23, 2020

no, its something else.
it's on every print. A small white circle. I'm going to attach some photos tomorrow so you see what Im talking about.

pentaxuser · Feb 23, 2020

When you attach the photos tell us if the circles are on every print or on several prints only but on the same film and if there are prints from one or more films that are completely free of spots.

You might see where I am coming from. White spots on prints are usually specks of some kind on the negatives which prevents light getting to the paper on the easel but might even be dark specks on the paper itself although this may be less likely. It sounds as if these different darkrooms are used by others. If so who looks after the cleaning of the enlargers? If under a fairly high powered loupe you can be sure that the negatives( assuming more than one) are free of blemishes then it suggests a problem with other hardware/environment such as enlargers, lenses even a dust laden atmosphere if the darkroom is used by enough people and isn't kept as clean as it should be

Unless the fellow printer is getting it on the same negative projections from the same enlarger then I fear the fact that the fellow printer has white spots as well may not actually be helpful in solving your problem. We need to look to what is common to every print to get to a cause.

I hope we can help you solve the problem

pentaxuser

John Koehrer · Feb 23, 2020

Different enlargers and lenses and another person with the same problem suggests it's the enlarger or lens/ If the enlarger
uses condensers it could be something on the condenser lens itself.
Does the other person use BOTH darkrooms too or do you share the same problematic room?

kevs · Feb 24, 2020

Hi RR10,

Until you post a scan, we can't really help with your problem. Here's a few thoughts anyway:

Does the white spot appear at the same position when printing different negs? If it does, there could be some debris or obstruction in the enlarger's light path.

Is the spot sharply defined or out-of-focus? If it's sharp, it's on the focal plane where you put the negative. If you use a class carrier, clean it, remove it or replace it. If it's a glassless carrier, there's something in the light path. Check and clean the neg carrier plate, condenser, diffuser and filter tray. If your enlarger has a heat filter, check and clean that too.

If your darkroom is damp, mould could grown on the enlarging lens, condensers and other optical surfaces.

Long shot --> internal reflections in the camera or lens, or light leak, pinholes in fabric shutter curtains.

If using a non-standard bulb in a condenser enlarger (not Photocrescenta or similar), it could be inconsistent output from your bulb. I remember using a domestic bulb when my old enlarger bulb blew; all of my prints proudly bore the legend "Osram 60w Made in England"!

Good luck with tracking down your problem.

mklw1954 · Feb 25, 2020

Assuming it's not an equipment problem it can be a housekeeping problem. White spots on prints result from tiny particles on negatives, usually not visible to the eye. Loose particles on the negative can be blown off before exposure. Particles dried onto the negative are more problematic and can be prevented by 1) filtering each chemical with a separate coffee filter before each reuse (developer and fixer remove silver from the negative and you can see particles in them after a few uses and viewing them in a clear bottle); 2) drying negatives in a dust-free atmosphere (some people have described drying negatives on a line in the shower after running the water briefly to remove dust in the air); 3) air drying reels and tanks (drying cloths can leave lint that dries and then gets on the negatives on next use).

RMB10 · Feb 26, 2020

here's the white spot which is not on the neg but that I get on the prints using two differennt darkrooms/enlargers and lenses.

The type of enlarger is the same in both darkrooms : De Vere ( in one darkroom is the 504 and in the other darkroom is the 203).
The spot is always in different positions.

Sometimes it's camouflaged and cannot be seen, but when its on a clear surface or sky it's easier to detect.
If It appears on the sky I can turn the neg so that the spot is no longer on the sky but in the lower part of the print, hence less visible.

I'm ok doing that, but I was just wondering why that is happening and so my friend that uses the same public darkroom.

Thanks for your help!

RMB10 · Feb 26, 2020

John Koehrer said:
Different enlargers and lenses and another person with the same problem suggests it's the enlarger or lens/ If the enlarger
uses condensers it could be something on the condenser lens itself.
Does the other person use BOTH darkrooms too or do you share the same problematic room?

the other person only uses one of the darkrooms I'm referring to and a different enlarger since there are 2 enlargers in that darkroom and he tends to use a different one from the one I use. Same model though ( De Vere 504 Dichromat ).

I'm referring to diffuser enlargers not condenser.

Ian C · Feb 26, 2020

You indicate that this is a DeVere 504 equipped with the Dichromat color head.

If this is not a print-processing issue, then a white spot on a print indicates that the light is being blocked by an opaque object. This could be on the negative, on a glass plate of a glass negative carrier, or on the diffuser panel just above the negative. In some cases a bit of debris might rest on the surface of the enlarging paper as the projection is being made, which casts its shadow during the exposure. This usually only affects a single print and is not the case here.

Since you’ve eliminated the negative as the source, then that suggests the negative carrier glass, if a glass carrier is used. The diffusing panel is also a possibility. If the diffuser is the source, it could be on the side facing down. It might also be a bit of debris from the inside of the light-mixing chamber that came to rest on the top surface of the diffuser.

If it is on the plate of a glass carrier, it would be more sharply defined than an object on the diffusing panel, which is farther from the object plane (negative plane).

pentaxuser · Feb 26, 2020

It looks to me as if IanC 's analysis is on the right lines. If it is one spot and not on the neg then it has to be connected to the enlarger or in this case two. If it is one "obstruction" and that is certainly the way it looks is it always in the same spot in each of the prints from each of the enlargers?

pentaxuser

grain elevator · Feb 26, 2020

Thirded. I've seen something like that from a spot on the glass carrier. Be aware that it could well be a spot that's translucent, but refracts the light.

RMB10 · Feb 26, 2020

the negative carrier in both De Vere enlargers had no glass.
I will check the diffusion box on the enlarger in my darkroom and if I have any news I will report here.
Thanks so much for all your suggestions!

kevs · Feb 26, 2020

Yup, sounds like you've narrowed it down to something on the glass plate(s) of the neg carrier. That would explain it moving around between frames.
Try checking the plate with a torch in a darkened room, a point source of light will easily show up any dust and muck.
Could you use a glassless carrier? Then you'll have only two surfaces rather than six to clean.

Well I don't know then but it sounds like dust to me. The only other thing I can think of is dust or debris landing on your paper when printing. Could something be falling from your hair or clothing?
You could try wearing a hat or a hairnet while printing.

Dust from sleeves touching the paper?
Static electricity attracting dust to the paper?

It might be worthwhile running a vacuum cleaner hose around the enlarger, over the neg stage and around the inside of the bellows -- you'd be surprised how much dust can lurk inside the bellows of an enlarger, especially older ones like the De Veres.

Good luck and have fun.

RMB10 · Feb 27, 2020

kevs said:
Yup, sounds like you've narrowed it down to something on the glass plate(s) of the neg carrier. That would explain it moving around between frames.
Try checking the plate with a torch in a darkened room, a point source of light will easily show up any dust and muck.
Could you use a glassless carrier? Then you'll have only two surfaces rather than six to clean.

Well I don't know then but it sounds like dust to me. The only other thing I can think of is dust or debris landing on your paper when printing. Could something be falling from your hair or clothing?
You could try wearing a hat or a hairnet while printing.

Dust from sleeves touching the paper?
Static electricity attracting dust to the paper?

It might be worthwhile running a vacuum cleaner hose around the enlarger, over the neg stage and around the inside of the bellows -- you'd be surprised how much dust can lurk inside the bellows of an enlarger, especially older ones like the De Veres.

Good luck and have fun.

I will do! Thank you!

Kilgallb · Mar 8, 2020

I went mad chasing this with my Beseler. The root case was the styrofoam in the mixing chamber was dropping particles on the diffuser.

as the white blob is not in focus, it is not likely on the negative.

RMB10 · Sep 25, 2020

Hi everyone, just wanted to follow up. I found what the problem was with the white spot on my prints.
As some of you suggested, it was a really small particle on the outside of the diffuser.

White spot on prints

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