White marks on Negatives

[noahsmith]

Hi Everyone,

I recently had an issue after developing my Kodak Pro 100 35mm negatives.

In the photos below, you'll see white spots which are actually all over my negatives. It's embedded into the negative itself, I already tried to see if I could clean it off so that rules out dust being the issue.

I developed these myself using a Unicolor kit. This was the 7th roll I've developed with these chemicals so if my calculations are correct, the developing time would be about 4:20 for normal processing.

I've been developing color film for a long time and have never seen this. The only thing I do after I pull the negatives out of the tank is run a Kimtech wipe down the non elmusion side of the negative to avoid water stains. All of my chemicals were originally mixed with distilled water. During the washing step, I just use my sink water and have never really had an issue with that.

Any thoughts on what this could be? I have a theory that it could be the Kimtech wipe although I don't normally have an issue with that either and if I don't use it, many times I get water stains.

Appreciate any help, thanks!

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Is this 120 film?

 

[noahsmith]

Is this 120 film?

No, 35mm

 

[koraks]

I usually get this when I allow my fixer to be reused too many times. Try using fresh fixer and it may help a bit to filter your fixer every time after use, after it has cooled down. But I'd recommend to not overuse the fixer in the first place.
Also make sure that all your chemical & wash water bottles are clean.

 

[BMbikerider]

I would more or less agree with Noahasmith (above) that it is sediment from either overused fixer/bleach - more likely from the bleach, that has adhered to the emulsion of the film. Run your finger lightly over the emulsion side and it will feel slightly rough, a bit like very fine sandpaper.
Chemicals are cheaper than film so it is worth ditching the bleach fix before it has reached it's capacity or age when it starts to go 'off' .

 

[georgegrosu]

You can go to the Kodak site with problems with the processing of negative color films and with the negative incriminated in front you see somewhere they fit better.
https://www.kodak.com/uploadedfiles/motion/h24_08.pdf
Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 8 -
Effects of Mechanical & Chemical Variations in Process ECN-2 – page 8-38
PROCESSED FILM PROBLEMS
The recommendations made by your colleagues above are on this line.
Sometimes the Kodak site does not work so they put pictures with “PROCESSED FILM PROBLEMS.”

George

 

[noahsmith]

I usually get this when I allow my fixer to be reused too many times. Try using fresh fixer and it may help a bit to filter your fixer every time after use, after it has cooled down. But I'd recommend to not overuse the fixer in the first place.
Also make sure that all your chemical & wash water bottles are clean.

Good to know, yeah I actually filter my Blix before I put it into the tank.

 

[noahsmith]

I would more or less agree with Noahasmith (above) that it is sediment from either overused fixer/bleach - more likely from the bleach, that has adhered to the emulsion of the film. Run your finger lightly over the emulsion side and it will feel slightly rough, a bit like very fine sandpaper.
Chemicals are cheaper than film so it is worth ditching the bleach fix before it has reached it's capacity or age when it starts to go 'off' .

Yeah, that makes sense - do you have a preferred C41 kit you like to use?

 

[noahsmith]

You can go to the Kodak site with problems with the processing of negative color films and with the negative incriminated in front you see somewhere they fit better.
https://www.kodak.com/uploadedfiles/motion/h24_08.pdf
Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 8 -
Effects of Mechanical & Chemical Variations in Process ECN-2 – page 8-38
PROCESSED FILM PROBLEMS
The recommendations made by your colleagues above are on this line.
Sometimes the Kodak site does not work so they put pictures with “PROCESSED FILM PROBLEMS.”

George

Very helpful, thank you!

 

[BMbikerider]

Yeah, that makes sense - do you have a preferred C41 kit you like to use?

No, not really. I am using a 2.5L Tetenal kit at the moment, but I have used a Fuji 5L and Rollie Digibase 2.5L. Of them all, I liked the Fuji kit best but there are so many chemicals to mix and that can cause problems with minute quantities of individual chemicals when making only 150 cc of developer for rotary processing makes it a time consuming business to get it accurate every time. The Tetenal brew is much easier and therefore consistent.

I always use the developer once and throw away, that way I get consistency. The bleach and fix (separate solutions) I use 500cc of each working solution for a Max of 6 films before throwing it away and making new.

 

[chip j]

I had the same exact problem when I developed 35mm film w/OLD Photo Flo. I found a way to get rid pf them easily in the old Encyclopedia of Photography (a 20 volume set), but I don't know where I put my notes--it's been years. Now I buy a new bottle of Photo Flo every year.

 

[noahsmith]

No, not really. I am using a 2.5L Tetenal kit at the moment, but I have used a Fuji 5L and Rollie Digibase 2.5L. Of them all, I liked the Fuji kit best but there are so many chemicals to mix and that can cause problems with minute quantities of individual chemicals when making only 150 cc of developer for rotary processing makes it a time consuming business to get it accurate every time. The Tetenal brew is much easier and therefore consistent.

I always use the developer once and throw away, that way I get consistency. The bleach and fix (separate solutions) I use 500cc of each working solution for a Max of 6 films before throwing it away and making new.

Can you explain in more detail how you go about only using your developer once? Do you just mix all of the 2.5L and then divide it out into 6 separate containers? Not sure I'm totally following, I've only ever bought 1000ml of the Unicolor Kit and then reused the developer each time for about 7-8 rolls.

 

[BMbikerider]

If you use simple maths you can work out how much of each chemical you need to make up 150cc which is the quantity used in a JOBO 35mm developing tank. I have no qualms about splitting a kit because I find that the developer has a far, far longer life than the manufacturers suggest. I use it, as I have said and dump it at the end of the session. Quite simple really.

Or you can make up the whole lot in one go and split it into 500cc brown glass bottles and store somewhere cool. Each 500 cc bottle is then split down again to fill 150cc bottles each enough for one film, (3 bottles) The remaining 50cc after the main lot has been decanted, can be topped up using inert plastic or glass beads to exclude most of the air and it will quite happily remain active for at least 4 weeks or even a little longer. The remaining 50cc quantities can be then combined as the developer is used to do one more film.

I have even gone as far as after filling the 500cc bottles leaving the cap off initially and heating the bottle in a microwave only then capping the bottle. The heat will cause the air to be expelled so when the cap is put on, providing it is airtight, this will make a vacuum and help with the preservation.
Do not heat it above 38-45 degrees C. It will take a bit of experimentation to get it right

RA4 developer can be treated in the same way. The Tetenal RA4 in my NOVA 12x16 tank is now over 3 months old and with generous and regular replenishment it will last almost forever. You CANNOT over replenish!
I always cover the top of the tank with clingfilm which stops any evaporation so maintains the chemical level. If you do this immediately after finishing a session and if you manage to make a good seal, as the chemicals cool down you can see the cling film being sucked inwards, so you know there is at least a partial vacuum inside. The big killer for C41/E6/R4 developers is air/oxygen getting to the chemical. Stop or reduce that and you are home and dry.

 

[koraks]

You CANNOT over replenish!

Oh yes. Yes, you can. With RA4, most certainly. With quite dramatic consequences (been there...)

 

[BMbikerider]

How on earth can you over replenish? You are only adding the same chemical from a storage bottle to what is in the tank.to bring it back up to standard. You must have done something else to cause your problem whatever it was.

 

[koraks]

A replenished and seasoned developer solution maintains a balance of halides that soak from the paper into the developer (or are added in the form of a starter). Over-replenishment brings the developer closer to a fresh, non-seasoned developer bath that does not have the proper halide balance. In addition, the pH may rise too high upon over-replenishment. The result in my experience is severe color shift due to excess density in particular on the magenta and less so on the yellow dyes as well as too high overall density. Try running a print through pure, non-seasoned replenisher without starter added and compare with the result from a seasoned tank solution. You'll see what I mean.
The problem will probably be much less severe or even non-existent when using a developer that doesn't require a starter or seasoning. So it depends on what kind of chemistry you use, but at least minilab chemistry can certainly be over-replenished.

 

[MattKing]

Continuing from what koraks has posted, it is important to understand that some systems use a replenisher that is very similar in activity to the activity of the same volume of a seasoned working solution, while others use a replenisher that is much more active than the activity of the same volume of a seasoned working solution.
In the former case, it is hard to over-replenish, whereas in the latter case, over-replenishment is a real concern.