"white dots" problem with Efke Ir820c film

[jasonhall]

I'm riding my bike in the middle of no-where yesterday and it hits me.... the stop bath is too strong. I had the same problem years ago and it was caused by too strong a stop bath.

Where you using a stop bath.... could you try a roll with a water rinse instead.

-Rob

As for me, I only use distilled water for the stop bath and that is all I have ever used. Will say I did not use a tempered bath as I was useing Diafine and temp is not an issue. The jugs and water and Difaine, fixer and all had been sitting in the same small closet for weeks...months really. So temp variation should not be the issue.

Thanks anyway...I remember that if I start to use stop bath. I may start to use it with HC-110 (B), because it has a development time less than 5 min with many films, but I like the results.

Thanks also for the complement on the images TEX.

Jason

 

[Marco B]

I had this problem with the non Aura version of the film and was a a pain. To minimise it I used to wash the film in the tank by filling it with water and emtying it at least 5 times till all the dye had fully gone, water at 20 degrees C all the time.

M

Hi Martin,

How would this help if, like PE suggested, the dust was truly embedded in the emulsion? Washing probably would not be able clear that...? :confused:

Or is your experience that at least some, or maybe a lot, is actually only superficially lying on top of the coating, meaning the dust problem would not be at the emulsion preparation stage, as PE suggested, but settling on the emulsion some time shortly after it has been coated onto the filmbase?

Marco

 

[thefizz]

I'm at the stage where I may just drop this film even though it is one of my favourites. I get dots or scratches on roughly every second roll and I'm fed up with it now.

My last batch of Efke IR had batch number 710525 dated 2009-06 and it was bad. I hoped the Aura version would be better but sadly its not. The Aura I got was batch number 910632 dated 2010-9.

With just a 50% chance of getting a clean neg, its just too much of a waste of time and money. I'll shoot the last few rolls I have and then I think thats me finished.

Peter

 

[martinhughesireland]

Hi Martin,

How would this help if, like PE suggested, the dust was truly embedded in the emulsion? Washing probably would not be able clear that...? :confused:

Or is your experience that at least some, or maybe a lot, is actually only superficially lying on top of the coating, meaning the dust problem would not be at the emulsion preparation stage, as PE suggested, but settling on the emulsion some time shortly after it has been coated onto the filmbase?

Marco

I dont know if the dust is lying on top of the coating or at the emulsion preparation stage, fact is noone here knows, people are just guessing, only the Efke engineers can tell you whats really going on.... All I know is what I have done to reduce the problem with the non aura version, that is wash this film at least 5 times (at 20 degrees) making sure all the dye is fully gone before putting in the developer. I don't get this problem with the my current batch of 120 Aura. I'll be ordering a new batch soon and will see how I get on...

Peter/TheFizz: Im using the exact same batch 910632 dated 2010-9 of the Aura film and having no problems except the odd frame has some small holes in it which are very small when printed??? If you wan to swap a few 120 roles to see how we get one with each others let me know and I can pop some over...

 

[Marco B]

I dont know if the dust is lying on top of the coating or at the emulsion preparation stage, fact is noone here knows, people are just guessing, only the Efke engineers can tell you whats really going on.... All I know is what I have done to reduce the problem with the non aura version, that is wash this film at least 5 times (at 20 degrees) making sure all the dye is fully gone before putting in the developer. I don't get this problem with the my current batch of 120 Aura. I'll be ordering a new batch soon and will see how I get on...

Yes, you are right, nobody knows and in fact it doesn't really matter. The only thing that does matter is if there are possibilities to reduce the issue like you suggest. If pre-washing before development helps you, than it would be interesting to hear if others have the same experience and can reduce their problems.

Like others, I have been thinking of giving this film a try, and I will definitely implement your suggestion in case I do, considering all the remarks about "white dots" issues related to this film.

 

[thefizz]

Peter/TheFizz: Im using the exact same batch 910632 dated 2010-9 of the Aura film and having no problems except the odd frame has some small holes in it which are very small when printed??? If you wan to swap a few 120 roles to see how we get one with each others let me know and I can pop some over...

Thanks for the offer Martin.

I always pre-wash my film for a few minutes but I recon the problem is within the emulsion as PE suggests so I don't see how that can be washed out. If a pre-wash gets rid of some of the dirt, then surely the development, stop, fix and final wash stages would do the same if you didn't pre-wash. But I'm no expert so maybe PE could advise?

Also the tiny scratches that sometimes show are another problem :rolleyes:

As Usagi did, I'm going to contact Fotokemika and think we should all do the same. No point in us all crying about the film here and not letting the manufacturer know.

But no harm swapping a few rolls with you Martin and see what happens. I'll be more than happy to be proved wrong.

Peter

 

[Photo Engineer]

If it is dust and dirt on the surface of the film, it will be pressed into the emulsion during winding on the master roll. Washing to extremes might just remove this stuff, but I really cannot say. Embedded dirt usually cannot be removed after coating, as the "pores" in the gelatin are not wide enough to pass the particles.

Bottom line is that I cannot see any reason for a long prewash to work unless the excess swell induced by development acts to supply some sort of "suction" to embed surface particles into the emulsion matrix. That is one explanation for the facts so far presented. But, we may be looking at several problems too.

PE

 

[Usagi]

My last batch of Efke IR had batch number 710525 dated 2009-06 and it was bad.

Exactly same batch number that my Efke IR films.
So it could really be quality issue.

So far I haven't got any response or reaction from Efke/Fotokemika to my mail.

 

[jasonhall]

If it is dust and dirt on the surface of the film, it will be pressed into the emulsion during winding on the master roll. Washing to extremes might just remove this stuff, but I really cannot say. Embedded dirt usually cannot be removed after coating, as the "pores" in the gelatin are not wide enough to pass the particles.

Bottom line is that I cannot see any reason for a long prewash to work unless the excess swell induced by development acts to supply some sort of "suction" to embed surface particles into the emulsion matrix. That is one explanation for the facts so far presented. But, we may be looking at several problems too.

PE

Well I understand that the long prewash is only a long shot at helping the issue, however I am willing to try on my next roll.

However, I use Diafine and I understand that you should not prewash with Diafine. I know of those that say they do with no issue. I was told that the reason you do not prewash is that the emultion will soak up a bit of the water and not allow it to soak up as much Developer A as it should. This is said to make it so that there is not enough of it absorbed to react with Developer B. I have no idea if this is so, but if it is, it would be true with all two part developers...right?

So my question to those of you who truely know better....does it cause a problem have a prewash (in this case a long one) with Diafine.

Thanks

Jason

 

[Photo Engineer]

Jason;

I have used a prewash with all drum processed film for the last 30+ years with no problem. I have never tried off brand films though, nor have I tried it with tray processed sheet films that I rememmber, but have done it with roll film in tray processing. If properly hardened, and if the film is prewet in water no warmer than 68F, then it should not cause problems with the film. As to whether it will solve the problem, that is another matter.

PE

 

[jasonhall]

Jason;

I have used a prewash with all drum processed film for the last 30+ years with no problem. I have never tried off brand films though, nor have I tried it with tray processed sheet films that I rememmber, but have done it with roll film in tray processing. If properly hardened, and if the film is prewet in water no warmer than 68F, then it should not cause problems with the film. As to whether it will solve the problem, that is another matter.

PE

Thanks Ron,

I will give the "super prewash" a try. Heck, at this point I see no reason why not, and if I have the same problem still...then we will know.

Jason

 

[thefizz]

So far I haven't got any response or reaction from Efke/Fotokemika to my mail.

Same here :rolleyes:

 

[Usagi]

Month has passed without response from Fotokemika, so I guess it's time to dump my roll's of with that emulsion number to the recycle bin...
Or store them and wait until I can contact Fotokemika somehow.

 

[thefizz]

I also received no reply to my email. I recently developed a roll from a new batch without changing my development procedure and it looks good. I honestly believe there are good and bad batches coming from their factory. Its just tough luck if you get a bad batch.