Which TLR

Graham.b · Mar 14, 2009

If you were to be in the market for a TLR, Mamiya or Rollie, i have found a couple on the web and was wondering what all the fuss is with these, we used to have one in the family when i was a small lad.

Regards Graham

Ian Grant · Mar 14, 2009

There's no fuss they are just great cameras to use. It's a different way of working to a MF SLR, it isn't better and it's certainly not worse.

I have Mamiya 645's they are heavier & slightly larger and great cameras but my Yashicamat 124 and Rolleiflex are far more fun to use. They may not be as versatile as they don't have interchangeable lenses but then if you want that you can buy a Mamiya C2 or 3 series TLR and I used them in the 70's & 80's but they are larger & heavier than the Yashica's and Rollei's.

TLR's aren't for everyone, you should try one before you commit yourself to buying one, I returned to you using them after a gap of 25 years and really didn't expect to enjoy using them as much. It's a slower more thoughtful way of working, the laterally reversed image makes you look more carefully at the framing etc.

Ian

archphoto · Mar 14, 2009

There are a number of threads on this item.....

Basicly 3 types:
1) the Yashica type: not too expensive, most of them good quality
2) the Rolleiflexes : pricy at times, I have a 2.8F and love it
3) the Mamiya's: if you want interchangable lenses, the heaviest of the 3

The fuss: there is no fuss, exept on ebay where they are asking prices that are at times way too high.
Rolleiflexes have allways been expensive.

If you want a quiet camera that makes great pics at 6x6 the TLR's are the ones.

Peter

nemo999 · Mar 14, 2009

Graham.b said:
If you were to be in the market for a TLR, Mamiya or Rollie, i have found a couple on the web and was wondering what all the fuss is with these, we used to have one in the family when i was a small lad.

Regards Graham

A Rolleiflex-style TLR is no bigger than, and is lighter than, a professional 35mm SLR but delivers the higher image quality of a bigger format. Mamiyaflexes are bigger, heavier, more versatile - and quite a lot of them are worn out by now!

Graham.b · Mar 14, 2009

I have found a, what i found on a search of this model is a 1953. It looks i nice condition, pictures are not to go by. Ian i shoot 645 now and have for some years so slow is all in my stride. I do except you have to play to find out if it fits or not. The one i have found is £95 what do you think.

I had a look at the Ebay and it is only a look, you can never tell what you could end up with. I do agree peter the price's are a little on the heavy side.

Graham

Katier · Mar 14, 2009

Found a what Graham?

Do you have a link to the ebay?

srs5694 · Mar 14, 2009

Here are a couple of links that may be of interest to you, Graham:

An article on The Bokeh about TLRs. This is an introductory piece about TLRs in general, with descriptions of three TLRs in particular (the Lubitel 166U, the Yashica-Mat 124G, and the Mamiya C-series).
Dead Link Removed If you want to get one of these TLRs in particular, this site will tell you the differences, to help you narrow your choice.

FWIW, I just bought a Mamiya C220 off of eBay. So far (one roll shot) it seems like a very good camera. It certainly inspires more confidence than my Kiev 6C, although there are pluses and minuses in the TLR-vs-SLR comparison.

Jeff Kubach · Mar 14, 2009

I love my Rollei 2.8 TLR. The images it makes are great!

Jeff

Ian Grant · Mar 14, 2009

Graham, I already had a an early 60's Rollei but decided to start again with an early 70's Yashicamat 124. I was given the Rollei many years ago because although mint it didn't function properly through lack of use since new.
One thing you have to watch is the shutters on any of these TLR's a CLA (clean, lubricate & re-assembly0 will cost around £50 in the UK.

I bought a reasonable Yashica, but the slow speeds were sticky & I had to pay the extra £50 to have it serviced, I had the Rollei serviced at the same time.

If you buy a Yashica don't pay too much, make sure it has a Yashinon taking lens, the LM's, 124 & 124g are the best models.
Sometimes Rolleiflex's can be found at reasonable prices, MWClassic's had one for £99 but it's better to pay more and get a decent robust camera the 2,8/3.5 C,'s, D's & E's are worth looking for. Cosmetic condition tends to paly a bug part in the selling price, but Ffordes seem to be a good place to buy them at fair prices, and you'd get a guarantee of a few months.

Ian

rootberry · Mar 14, 2009

I loved my C330F , it was a pretty killer camera. I had three lenses for it and it was a joy to use, although I mostly shot from a tripod so weight wasn't really an issue. You really couldn't go wrong with a mamiya, yash, or rollei. I went with the mamiya simply because I got it cheap =)

Anscojohn · Mar 14, 2009

I had a Mamiya C3, bought new; which I liked a lot. I have had quite a few Rolleis. They are smaller, lighter, some have sharper lenses; but are not as flexible.

Shmoo · Mar 14, 2009

If you want a good experience at pretty inexpensive prices, try a RolleiCORD instead of a Rolleiflex...then go ahead and get the Rolleiflex because you'll want one after that experience. The lenses on the Rolleis ('cords or 'flexes) are just amazingly tack sharp.

jimgalli · Mar 14, 2009

There will be as many opinions as there are people. TLR's covered a huge range 50 and 60 years ago. Everything from crappy little Kodak's that you don't want to superbly machined cameras with the worlds best lenses ever.

If a TLR were my only camera I might consider the Mamiya as it's a system and has different focal lengths. But for me a TLR is to be a lovely little camera that can hang about my neck on a holiday with the family while the bigger cameras that no one tolerate stay home. The Mamiya is just too heavy for that. I settled on a pretty little Minolta Autocord. It's 75mm f3.5 Rokkor is superb. And it's light as a feather. I can do snaps of the kiddo's guessing at the light and no tripod, then later on by myself I can put it on a tiny tripod and do shots of a locomotive that would blow up to 20X20.

Read Don Normark's book about "Chavez Ravine, a Los Angeles Story". The images are breathtaking. He did them with a CiroFlex TLR camera that isn't worth $19 on Ebay today. I was so taken with his pictures I bought a CiroFlex. It's a wonderful little tin can of a camera and if I didn't have the Autocord I'd be just as happy with it. Image quality was gorgeous. A niece was getting interested in going further in photography so I gave it to her last Christmas. You can pay 100 times more for a Rolleiflex but putting the images together in a plain brown wrapper.........could you pick it??

Toffle · Mar 14, 2009

I agree with pretty much everybody has said about the above cameras. As for the fuss, it is kind of an acquired taste, but shooting with a TLR is just a wonderful experience. To me, it is a heart vs mind thing... you hold an SLR up to your face; you hold a TLR next to your heart. On a similar note, I've been a musician all my life... there's something about the phyisical connection when you cradle a violin against your shoulder that is unlike any other instrument. (And I say this a someone who plays mostly wind instruments... I'm the world's worst violin player... )

Cheers,

MattKing · Mar 14, 2009

If you are unsure about whether to go for smaller/lighter (Rollie, Yashica, Minolta) or flexibility (Mamiya C series) consider a Mamiya C220 with either a 65mm or 80mm lens. The C220s are a bit lighter and smaller than the C3/C33/C330s, at the expense of some of the convenience features (like auto-cocking shutters). If you like the TLR experience, you can either stay with the C220, or expand your system with lenses and other bodies, in which case the C220 remains a reasonably lightweight option and an excellent backup body.

I've had a C330 for 30+ years, and added a C220 body 4 or so years ago.

By the way, if you are like me and are left handed, a C330 with left hand trigger grip is one of the best cameras to use anywhere.

Matt

luvcameras · Mar 14, 2009

Here's my

Rolleiflex Price & Info Guide

Dead Link Removed

Rolleicord Price & Info Guide

Dead Link Removed

Everyone should try a Rollei before they leave the earth..

Dan
Fav Rollei = 3.5 Type 4

archphoto · Mar 14, 2009

[QUOTE

Everyone should try a Rollei before they leave the earth..

[/QUOTE]

I think you are a bit right with that.........

Peter

grahamp · Mar 14, 2009

The Yashicamats, Autocords, Mamiya A and B, and the British MPP are all essentially Rolleiflex copies. There are variations in build quality and optics, but unless you get a new Rolleiflex they have all been around a good few years, so wear is becoming more important than pedigree.

I still use a YashicaMat from time to time. Portable, no worrying about which lens set to pack, robust (I used to carry one in a bar bag cycle touring). I also use my Mamiya C cameras a lot, especially when I want close-focusing or a lens selection. My Mamiya pages were cited a few posts back.

TLRs are a little like view cameras. The ground glass is a different composition tool than a direct vision camera (SLR or rangefinder). If you photograph around people their reaction to the 'old style' is often positive.

(another) Graham

Prest_400 · Mar 14, 2009

MattKing said:
If you are unsure about whether to go for smaller/lighter (Rollie, Yashica, Minolta) or flexibility (Mamiya C series) consider a Mamiya C220 with either a 65mm or 80mm lens.

I've had a C330 for 30+ years, and added a C220 body 4 or so years ago.

By the way, if you are like me and are left handed, a C330 with left hand trigger grip is one of the best cameras to use anywhere.

Matt

Once It's possible (years), I've got planned to get a C220. I thought about the rolleicord, but it's a bit less versatile than I want; and the Mamiya 80mm f2.8 has wider aperture, which means more out of focus areas; something I like.
I like that grip for the C series cameras, however, they seem hard to find used. I seen one new for 200$. excessive!
But those grips seem a nice help for handhold, and adds a nice "journalist" look. I'll take more looks into it one I have a Mamiya C, if I finally choose it.

luvcameras said:
Everyone should try a Rollei before they leave the earth..

Of course, a Rollei(flex) will enter sooner or later (later) the collection.

JPD · Mar 14, 2009

Another vote for Rolleiflex. I have a couple. Fun, sharp, fast and easy to use. Rolleicords are also great cameras, especially the Vb with it's bright viewing screen.

A Yashica with Yashinon should be good too. My father has a Yashica-A, the cheapest model, with Yashikor lens. It has only a four speed shutter, but the Yashikor lens is nice. The softness at large apertures is pleasing, and stopped down the lens is sharp.

srs5694 · Mar 14, 2009

Prest_400 said:
I like that grip for the C series cameras, however, they seem hard to find used. I seen one new for 200$. excessive!

There are several Mamiya C-series grips. KEH Dead Link Removed for $35, but it's the basic model without a shutter release. I'm not sure what they'd go for with the release, but if it were $200, I'd just duct tape a standard cable release to the $35 grip!

MattKing · Mar 14, 2009

The Mamiya C330 left hand grip just happens to be the same as the Mamiya RB 67 left hand grip .

Here is a link to one on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mamiya-M645-RB67-RZ67-camera-L-grip-645-RB-RZ_W0QQitemZ400036199499QQcmdZViewItemQQptZFilm_Cameras?hash=item400036199499&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1215|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Matt

phenix · Mar 14, 2009

IMO, TLRs are for MF, what RFs are for 35mm. Although there are plenty of RFs for MF too, but I don’t speak from a technical (design) point of view, but from what I feel when shooting. It is simply different than using a SLR. If you like RFs in 35mm, you’ll enjoy TLRs for MF too.

Some people say that using a TLR is slower, but some others say they use their TLRs for candid shoots too, or for street photography, etc… So, slow or fast is a very personal question. But one thing is sure: with a TLR is very difficult to shot the street below from the 2nd floor, while with a RF or a SLR is normal. Beside this limitation, TLRs are easy and fun to shoot, and with most of these cameras, the pictures are amazing.

nemo999 · Mar 15, 2009

phenix said:
IMO... But one thing is sure: with a TLR is very difficult to shot the street below from the 2nd floor, while with a RF or a SLR is normal.

Many Rolleis (cords and flexes) and their imitators have a sports finder built into the hood - this is a flap in the front face of the hood, hinged at the bottom. You push this inwards until it locks, and you can then focus via a peep sight in the back of the hood and an additional mirror while viewing the subject through a second peep sight in the back of the hood and the open front of the hood

Slixtiesix · Mar 15, 2009

Graham, buy a TLR as soon as you can! I promise you, immediately after putting it out of the box,
you will regret that you hadn´t done it earlier .
I can also recommend the Rolleis. As Shmoo and JPD mentioned, the Rolleicord is a good one to start with. The Vb (Five b) was the last of this series and already offered a interchangeable viewing screen. This model was aimed at the serious amateur, who often took a lot of care for it, so it´s easy to find a Vb in good shape on Ebay. The only disadvantage of the Rolleicord is that you have to advance the film and cock the shutter indepently from each other, but the Vb has a double expose prevention. The Rolleiflex T is also worth a recommendation, I have one myself. Here shutter and film advance are already coupled.
Rolleicord and T-Model both have a 4-lens design (Xenar on the ´Cord, Tessar on the ´T) and pictures are stunning.
The big advantage of a Rollei is that you can sell it again without loss of money (but only if you want to ;-) )

Greetz, Benjamin

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