Which TLR?

[pradheep thavamani]

I am looking to purchase TLR camera, with my budget I can purchase Minolta autocord CDS iii or Rolleicord VB Model 2. Please help me decide which one I should consider purchasing.

 

[Cholentpot]

If you don't mind size go for the Mamiya C series.

 

[pradheep thavamani]

I do mind about size that’s why I didn’t want Mamiya TLR

 

[Lee Rust]

The Autocord and Rolleicord are very comparable. Whichever one feels better in-hand should be your choice.

 

[pradheep thavamani]

The Autocord and Rolleicord are very comparable. Whichever one feels better in-hand should be your choice.

I don’t have opportunity to try them before purchase since I have to purchase it online. Which one has sharpest lens?

 

[BrianShaw]

Vb, there’s no doubt it will serve you well. One advantage is the relatively large number of accessories that are easily and affordably available.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

I‘ve owned a zillion Rolleiflexes and Rolleicords over the decades. Now at 65, I reach most often for an old Rolleicord II, with a Triotar lens. It is simpler and lighter than a Rolleiflex — an elegant and efficient design.

FWIW, don’t get hung up on the latest model. Look for a Rolleicord with a modern view screen (essential) and a recent cleaning. There are no bad models. A keen eye will see a difference between a Triotar and a Xenar lens. But not between a Xenar and a Tessar or a Xenotar or a Planar.

The other TLRs are serviceable copies of the Rolleiflex. Stick with the original.

 

[Dan Daniel]

The CdS meter on the Autocord is not coupled and is not the most reliable mechanism. I wouldn't factor that into your thinking.

Not sure how prices are in Europe but in general the Autocord would be a bit cheaper than a Rolleicord Vb in the US. Except for the CdS models!

Lenses are comparable. Most any post-WWII Xenar and any Rokkor on the Autocord, both excellent lenses when in good condition.

Rolleicord Vb (and Va) has an option I like, the 6x4.5 kit, 16 exposures per roll. But unless you know what that means to you already, I wouldn't decide based on this.

The Autocord focus mechanism and lever design is nicer than the Rolleicord knob and knob. Autocord shutter release is also nicer. Then again, lots of people, including me, use a Rolleicord Vb et al quite comfortably.

Condition is the real issue. Buy with a return option and warranty.

If both are comparable in condition, etc., go for the one that seems more interesting and get shooting. Don't drag this process out too long. Once oyu get going with either one, they are very good cameras that you will learn to use easily, and that's the real fun.

 

[Cholentpot]

I do mind about size that’s why I didn’t want Mamiya TLR

I prefer my Yashica Mat to my Rolleicord.

The Yashica has a lever winder and button shutter. The Rolleicord has a knob and a toggled under the lens. I don't really like the toggle shutter. It's dangly and just doesn't feel as good as the button. Also, the Rollei needs a lens hood. It doesn't like contrast or any sort of light hitting the lens. It's a light camera though.

 

[Rolleiflexible]

I prefer my Yashica Mat to my Rolleicord.

The Yashica has a lever winder and button shutter. The Rolleicord has a knob and a toggled under the lens. I don't really like the toggle shutter. It's dangly and just doesn't feel as good as the button. Also, the Rollei needs a lens hood. It doesn't like contrast or any sort of light hitting the lens. It's a light camera though.

The lever wind is a mixed blessing. It adds complexity to the camera. Film transport is an area where things go wrong. And if you don’t like the shutter lever, just use a short (6-inch) shutter cable instead. I do that with all my cameras to avoid jarring the camera body when I trip the shutter.

 

[Cholentpot]

The lever wind is a mixed blessing. It adds complexity to the camera. Film transport is an area where things go wrong. And if you don’t like the shutter lever, just use a short (6-inch) shutter cable instead. I do that with all my cameras to avoid jarring the camera body when I trip the shutter.

I just so happen to have dug up a little cord. Next time I use the camera I'll hook it up. I also found a coldshoe mount for the viewing lens.

Cable, hood, bayonet flash. My Rolleicord is fully kitted out.

 

[Duceman]

Just go with the Autocord. Any Autocord. You won’t be disappointed.

 

[Hassasin]

Think about how Autocord focuses. Lever focusing is not everyone's cup of coffee. I can't stand it myself. You may like it, as many do. I never found the approach to be natural at all.

Then there is the proven unreliability of that focusing lever breaking with aftermarket parts improving the matters. Do you want to go there? It does have a great lens, but for me it was never a key point to take a chance.

Yashica Mat is a great choice, and Rolleicord ... about same level of built and end results. I would go between the two, taking into account price/condition/any return guarantees.

 

[Nitroplait]

I don’t have opportunity to try them before purchase since I have to purchase it online. Which one has sharpest lens?

Theoretically they are equal. In practical use it depends on the life the camera has lived - which is more than 50 years at this point.
You will not know until you have seen the results from the specific camera.

 

[bernard_L]

I don’t have opportunity to try them before purchase since I have to purchase it online.

That is just too bad. Maybe you should wait until you have the opportunity to handle at least one.
Autocord I can't comment, never had one. But I own a C220 and a Rolleicord Vb, and have checked and sold a Yashica Mat at the local charity.

Which one has sharpest lens?

Don't make a fixation on the supposedly sharper lens. See post #7 by Rolleiflexible.
"Look for a Rolleicord with a modern view screen (essential)"
+1 What is the point (aside from pride of ownership) of having a super-apo-planar-something if you can't focus properly? Unless you only take pictures of sunny scenes at f/16; but then all lenses are equal. The focus screen of the Yashica Mat is inferior to either the C220 or the 'Cord Vb; the latter having a plus with the split-image center spot. The Rolleicord just feels thoughtfully engineered and solidly built. The C220 is different: it's a system camera. Although, with the Rolleinars, you can also have fun in close-up's.
If you buy a Rolleicord Vb, try to find one with the sunshade; and budget at least a yellow filter.

 

[Hassasin]

The focus screen of the Yashica Mat is inferior to either the C220 or the 'Cord Vb

This is simply not correct.

 

[guangong]

I had a Minolta in early 1960s. Very good lens, but its weak point is a fragil focusing lever. Of the two choices, I would go with the Roleicord. I agree with you that the Mamiya is just too cumbersome.

 

[ic-racer]

I am looking to purchase TLR camera

Look for one that has a functioning shutter and clear lenses.

 

[albireo]

I have an Autocord and two Rolleicords (one Va and one Vb). They are my most used cameras (though I have other TLRs). They are both extraordinary cameras IF in the right condition. A couple of points from me:

1) With all these cameras, condition trumps make/model, by a country mile. Buy the one that is in the better condition THEN send it to a qualified technician for a once-over. My Rolleicord Vb was close to unused but had sat in a cabinet for 50 years. Only after a CLA it was really able to show me what it could do.

2) Remember that many people will purchase these cameras, then attempt to 'fix' them or 'CLA' them, only to then dump any botched attempts on the bay. Sometimes they will mix and match bits and pieces from different units just because. You WILL find a lot of garbage TLRs on ebay, even when they're sold as 'near mint'. Do your research before buying. Buy locally, investigate the history of the camera.

3) Minolta Autocords: remember that Autocords are in general cheaper and more widely available than Rolleicords in the US ---> a significant number of native English speakers on this and other English speaking forums is in the US ---> more people in the US will have had access to an Autocord than to a Rolleicord over the past decades ---> spot the selection bias wrt Autocords recommendation

4) Opposite bias in Europe, where the Autocord is rarer than the Rolleicords (except in the UK).

5) You will hear/read something to the sound of 'Autocords are way sharper than Rolleicords/Rolleiflex/<insert cameras>' no they're not. My Autocord is a fantastic camera, it's super sharp, but I wouldn't be able to reliably select its output rather than the Rolleicord's in a blind test, and neither would you. They're just as sharp, they're both in mint condition, they focus well, the focus is calibrated etc. Actually, my Rolleiflex 3.5F III with a 5 element Planar, completely and fully restored by Magicflex, one of the best Rolleiflex repairmen in the world, is noticeably sharper than the Rokkor in my Autocord (also in mint condition, fully CLAd by Karl Bryant in the US) from f/3.5 to f/5.6. f/11 and above they're all the same - if they're not, there's something really, really wrong in one of the cameras.

6) My Rolleicord Va is significantly lighter than my Autocord. It's so light that I can cycle for 2 hours with my Rolleicord hanging from my neck and not feel it at all. The Autocord is lighter than my Rolleiflex.

7) My Autocord is (for me) easier/more natural to focus than my Rolleicord.

So it's not black/white.

Message me in private, we can have a lengthy conversation about any other questions you might have.

 

[albireo]

The CdS meter on the Autocord is not coupled and is not the most reliable mechanism. I wouldn't factor that into your thinking.

Not sure how prices are in Europe but in general the Autocord would be a bit cheaper than a Rolleicord Vb in the US. Except for the CdS models!

Lenses are comparable. Most any post-WWII Xenar and any Rokkor on the Autocord, both excellent lenses when in good condition.

Rolleicord Vb (and Va) has an option I like, the 6x4.5 kit, 16 exposures per roll. But unless you know what that means to you already, I wouldn't decide based on this.

The Autocord focus mechanism and lever design is nicer than the Rolleicord knob and knob. Autocord shutter release is also nicer. Then again, lots of people, including me, use a Rolleicord Vb et al quite comfortably.

Condition is the real issue. Buy with a return option and warranty.

If both are comparable in condition, etc., go for the one that seems more interesting and get shooting. Don't drag this process out too long. Once oyu get going with either one, they are very good cameras that you will learn to use easily, and that's the real fun.

I had missed this. @Dan Daniel is 100% spot on (of course, he always is, in my experience!).

 

[Rolleiflexible]

5) You will hear/read something to the sound of 'Autocords are way sharper than Rolleicords/Rolleiflex/<insert cameras>' no they're not. My Autocord is a fantastic camera, it's super sharp, but I wouldn't be able to reliably select its output rather than the Rolleicord's in a blind test, and neither would you..

Truer words, never spoken.

And the same is true of most lenses on most TLRs. For many subjects, I prefer the old Triotar lenses in the early Rolleicords because they do seem to have some signature, some softness in the extremes, that gives them character, and gets to a small degree away from the clinical uniformity of the Xenars and Planars.

You need a camera that works. You need a modern view screen. Assuming the lens is properly collimated, it will not matter to your photographs.

There are lots of TLRs out there. Flexarets, made by Meopta in the former Czechoslovakia, are another worthy performer. Zeiss made Ikoflexes. Voigtlander made Superbs, some with Heliar lenses. Any will make sharp photographs. But not if the shutter sticks, or the film transport doesn’t, or you can’t see the image in the view screen to focus it.

 

[Helge]

You need a camera that works. You need a modern view screen. Assuming the lens is properly collimated, it will not matter to your photographs.

I’ll protest to that.
Fresnel screens collimate the light to some degree. Exactly what you are trying not to do with a focus screen.

The extreme of that is a “brilliant finder” which offers zero ability to focus.

If you don’t plan on using a center spot with split prism or micro prisms for fine focus all the time, then you absolutely want a traditional ground glass screen.

Sure the screen is darker. But it’s also sharper/higher contrast.

Acute Matte screens like Minolta patented seems to have hit a good compromise, but it’s still not as good as a good ground glass for focus precision.

Also replacing a screen is not completely unproblematic, especially if done by a disinterested seller trying to raise the price, or a bumbling amateur.

 

[Cholentpot]

This is simply not correct.

My Rolleicord does not have the best screen. The 'mat is far better. However nothing I've used comes close to the focusing screen of the C3 and C33 I have. They are miles ahead of anything else.

 

[Helge]

I have an Autocord and two Rolleicords (one Va and one Vb). They are my most used cameras (though I have other TLRs). They are both extraordinary cameras IF in the right condition. A couple of points from me:

1) With all these cameras, condition trumps make/model, by a country mile. Buy the one that is in the better condition THEN send it to a qualified technician for a once-over. My Rolleicord Vb was close to unused but had sat in a cabinet for 50 years. Only after a CLA it was really able to show me what it could do.

2) Remember that many people purchase these cameras, then attempt to 'fix' them or 'CLA' them then dump any botched attempts on the bay. Sometimes they will mix and match bits and pieces from different units just because. You WILL find a lot of garbage TLRs on ebay, even when they're sold as 'near mint'. Do your research before buying. Buy locally, investigate the history of the camera.

3) Minolta Autocords: remember that Autocords are in general cheaper and more widely available than Rolleicords in the US ---> a significant number of native English speakers on this and other English speaking forums is in the US ---> more people in the US will have had access to an Autocord than to a Rolleicord over the past decades ---> spot the selection bias wrt Autocords recommendation

4) Opposite bias in Europe, where the Autocord is rarer than the Rolleicords (except in the UK).

5) You will hear/read something to the sound of 'Autocords are way sharper than Rolleicords/Rolleiflex/<insert cameras>' no they're not. My Autocord is a fantastic camera, it's super sharp, but I wouldn't be able to reliably select its output rather than the Rolleicord's in a blind test, and neither would you. They're just as sharp, they're both in mint condition, they focus well, the focus is calibrated etc. Actually, my Rolleiflex 3.5F III with a 5 element Planar, completely and fully restored by Magicflex, one of the best Rolleiflex repairmen in the world, is noticeably sharper than the Rokkor in my Autocord (also in mint condition, fully CLAd by Karl Bryant in the US) from f/3.5 to f/5.6. f/11 and above they're all the same - if they're not, there's something really, really wrong in one of the cameras.

6) My Rolleicord Va is significantly lighter than my Autocord. It's so light that I can cycle for 2 hours with my Rolleicord hanging from my neck and not feel it at all. The Autocord is lighter than my Rolleiflex.

7) My Autocord is (for me) easier/more natural to focus than my Rolleicord.

So it's not black/white.

Message me in private, we can have a lengthy conversation about any other questions you might have.

+1^
If you want as light as possible then you could do much worse than the Ricohflex line with geared lenses.

Single leaf shutter, triplet and front cell focus might not get you jumping out of the chair with excitement, but they are surprisingly capable.
And they weight the same as a box camera.

Even wide open at 3.5 they are sharp and charming with swirly bokeh. At 8 they are very very close to a Tessar at 8.

Don’t pay more than $150 for a nice complete one though.

 

[BrianShaw]

My Rolleicord does not have the best screen. The 'mat is far better. However nothing I've used comes close to the focusing screen of the C3 and C33 I have. They are miles ahead of anything else.

You keep referring to your Rolleicord, but what model are you describing? It makes a difference. The Vb, for example, has the best original screen as one will get in a Rolleicord. Earlier versions, like a Rolleicord III, may be just as good but dimmer.

In my mind, screen brightness is a bit of a red herring. Lens type and intended photographic image intent is much more important. Condition is paramount, though, and, no matter what is chosen, a good servicing or overhaul is probably warranted before serious use due to the age of any TLR.