Which staining developer?

[lenslens]

Hi,

I am thinking of changing to a staining developer. I mainly use HP5+, a combi plan tank, shoot 4x5 and scan for output (digital negs or as prints).

My main reasons are for a cheaper developer that can sit on my shelf for longer, and can give me a good negative that I may use for contact printing with an alternative process.

Recommendations?

Thanks Len

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Pyrocat-HD or Pyrocat-MC in glycol lasts a very long time. However, I've heard of two cases where people have had problems with HP5 film, seemingly unexplainable. It is very cheap, however, and creator Sandy King has posted recipes of the formula in several places, so you can mix it yourself.
Great acutance, and works great for alt process.
Use blue channel if scanning these is the word around the campfire.
- Thomas

 

[rbultman]

*BUMP*

Any changes in 5+ years? Anybody have a favorite film/developer combo that works well with scanning?

-Rob

 

[OzJohn]

There's probably not a lot of folk here on DPUG with pyro experience - you might be better served asking on APUG. OzJohn

 

[rbultman]

I'm looking to generate some traffic and interest on DPUG since scanning is banned on APUG.

 

[ann]

I used Pryocat HD for a long time with HP5 +, including 35mm film.

I used semi stand development and the negatives looked like they are cut with glass

OOPs, i have never scanned them. sorry

 

[L Gebhardt]

I have scanned Pyrocat HD negatives and they come out very nice.

I tried semi-stand development, and they were sharp. But I had issues with uneven development, so I abandoned that method of development. These negs did end up being ones I scanned most of in order to fix the development issues.

I haven't used other staining developers than Pyrocat HD. I guess I did try a few test sheets in PMK, but they didn't turn out well in the Jobo so I never went back to it.

 

[PhotoJim]

PMK is a nice developer. The stock solutions are nearly immortal (I've gotten 6+ years out of stock) and the negatives are beautiful. However, I print traditionally so can make no comment as to how scannable they are.

 

[removed account4]

sorry for being no help, but i never can tell the difference between staining and " the other kind " of developer ..

i use ansco 130 ( yep the print developer ) dilute about 1:5 maybe more for prints in a hand tank or shuffled in a tray.
it lasts for at least a year in stock solution ( i buy it once every 15 months it seems, mix it when i get it and use it as needed )
i also use caffenol C straight up as well as with a splash of ansco stock solution mixed in ... i stand develop for about 1/2 hour
and get nice film ... these days i agitate for about 1 min in the beginning, and about 30 seconds/ 1 min at the end ... sometimes
i pour out the coffee about 1/2 way through the stand and finish it off in the 130 ( dilute ) shuffled in trays, or agitated normally in hand tanks
( normally being 1 minute then 10seconds each minute ) for 1/2 the time ( about 4.25 minutes ( i usually shuffle or hand tank for 8.5 mins ) ..

have fun !
john

 

[rbultman]

sorry for being no help, but i never can tell the difference between staining and " the other kind " of developer ..
have fun !
john

Do you stick with one or a limited number of films? I just started developing B&W a few months ago and have found that I like some films in Xtol (ECO-PRO actually) and others in a Rodinal clone.

-Rob

 

[PhotoJim]

sorry for being no help, but i never can tell the difference between staining and " the other kind " of developer ..

Staining or tanning developers tend to make the emulsion brownish or greenish as opposed to neutral in colour. Films that stain well are markedly very different, once processed, than films developed in standard non-staining developers like D-76 or XTOL.

I'd have no trouble pulling out the rolls done in PMK from my negative binders, just by looking at film strips. They are that obvious.

 

[removed account4]

thanks jim

in that case ... the a130 i guess would be non staining
while the caf / caf130 would be staining

- john

 

[removed account4]

Do you stick with one or a limited number of films? I just started developing B&W a few months ago and have found that I like some films in Xtol (ECO-PRO actually) and others in a Rodinal clone.

-Rob

hi rob

no, not really.
i pretty much process everything in the caffenol-stuff, unless it is client work.
i use a handful of different films, not just one emulsion, and they all seem to like
either the coffee or 130 ... seems that they are as not-particular as i am
some folks swear by the caffenol in low asa films or high asa films, but i have processed
3200 speed and 25iso film in it and gotten good results. my recipe is a bit different than
the recipes floating around the internet ... i don't really measure my ingredients ( grams or teaspoons )
and i use my own roasted beans instead of the instant coffee . the addition of a splash of ansco 130
to some is even more off the deep end because there are some coffee-users that claim my developer only
processes film because of the 130 .... even though ansco 130 in a 1:32 dilution won't even process film ...

i think you are right though, some films tend to like some developers more than others ...
john

 

[L Gebhardt]

thanks jim

in that case ... the a130 i guess would be non staining
while the caf / caf130 would be staining

- john

To be truly considered a staining developer the stain must also build up an image, not just provide an all over stain to the film. With a staining developer you could bleach the neg of all silver and still have an image (fainter than normal, to be sure). At least that's the theory, but I haven't tried it.

I have no idea if your caf130 is a true staining developer.

 

[PhotoJim]

Staining developers make negatives that look pretty unique. The emulsion looks almost three dimensional when you shine it in a bright light. This might be another way to distinguish.

 

[removed account4]

To be truly considered a staining developer the stain must also build up an image, not just provide an all over stain to the film. With a staining developer you could bleach the neg of all silver and still have an image (fainter than normal, to be sure). At least that's the theory, but I haven't tried it.

I have no idea if your caf130 is a true staining developer.

if that's the case i guess i use none
i was under the false impression that
caffenol was a distant cousin of the pyro family
but i guess it is like smithe and smyth, they look the same
but in reality are "false friends"

 

[Eric Rose]

I soup 90% of my film stuff in PyroCat-HD mixed in glycol. All of it is semi-stand or near semi-stand. Negs either print or scan extremely well. Films used have been FP4, HP5, Efke PL100 and most recently TMAX 100. My next favorite developer is Rodinal for it's unique look and then HC110. HC110 is a good all around soup for older type films in my experience.

 

[rbultman]

Development times

I soup 90% of my film stuff in PyroCat-HD mixed in glycol. All of it is semi-stand or near semi-stand. Negs either print or scan extremely well. Films used have been FP4, HP5, Efke PL100 and most recently TMAX 100. My next favorite developer is Rodinal for it's unique look and then HC110. HC110 is a good all around soup for older type films in my experience.

Can you share your development times for Pyrocat HD and which methods tray, Jobo, or small tank?

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

What I notice with developers such as PMK or Pyrocat is that when printing on silver gelatin paper, graded paper tends to get a boost in contrast from the color of the stain, while variable contrast papers tend to have a change in overall contrast that make the highlights appear different from standard developers. I've had trouble getting the highlight contrast that I like from PMK/Pyrocat using VC paper. I know others have had success with this, so this is just my experience.

As far as scanning goes, the scanner sees a density in the negative whether it's made up of silver or a stain, so the difference compared to a standard developer is probably much less, so other qualities such as sharpness, graininess, and acutance will weigh more in a decision to choose a developer. In the end, however, as long as you learn your materials inside and out, you can make anything work to your favor.

I hope that helps.

 

[Eric Rose]

I use hangers in dollar store tubs. TMAX 100, 13 min, agitate for 15 sec's at the beginning then let stand for 4 min's. Give it a little jiggle (the hangers that is) and then wait for another 4 min's and repeat. One more time and your done. Chemicals are at around 70F. Dilution is 1:1:!00.

For Efke PL100 I do the BTZS approach and have graphed everything out. You will have to do your own testing to determine times that work for your setup.

Sandy King's website has loads of valuable information on PyroCat. I developed the website BTW. Sandy's website is at Welcome - Sandy King Photography

 

[mark]

Back when I started I think I used every developer I could get my hands on. Then I realized I was wasting my money. I got to know one developer very well and it serves my needs. I prefer Pyrocat-HD. That being said I am contemplating moving to a different developer.

 

[jeffreyg]

I have used PMK Pyro from Bostick & Sullivan for a number of years with HP5 and get excellent results. It comes "A" and "B" and I only mix as needed. As separated liquids they have lasted for years. It does take some trial to see your personal developing time. At least for me the times recommended on various web sites didn't give the results I sought. When feeling lazy I have developed Delta 100 and HP5 in the same tank but removed the 100 1 1/2 min before the 400 although it probably didn't matter since my typical developing time @70 degrees varies from 18 to 22 minutes depending on the contrast desired. I also use ID11 when not using the Pyro.

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