Which of the Pentacon-6 mount cameras are the most reliable?

[TheFlyingCamera]

I realize this like like asking which 1970s Italian car is most reliable, but I'm asking anyway. I have access to a 50mm Flektogon in P6 mount and it would be fun to give it a try. Would I be best off with an actual Pentacon 6, a Praktisix, or a Kiev of some flavor with the P6 mount (preferably gone over by Arax)? Or should I just run screaming the other direction and not bother.

 

[lecarp]

Or pick up an adapter to mount on the Mamiya 645 cameras.
From a former Alfa Romeo owner and pusher of more than a few fiats.

 

[Ian Grant]

I used a Bronica S2a with a 50mm Flextagon in the late 1970s, and it was a superb lens, as good as the Nikkor & Komura lenses in the then Bronica range. It wasn't mine, it belonged to a leading UK commercial/advertising photographer

The Praktisix . . . . . I have two KW Praktina FX cameras one with the legendary 58mm f2 Biotar, they are close to Leica quality. I would like to own a Praktisix/Pentacon Six, just for a short while . . . . . . . . . .

Ian

 

[gone]

I worked as a mechanic at a Fiat/Alfa Romeo dealership in the 70's. The Alfa were OK cars, sorta. Better built than the Fiats anywat, whose letters were thought to stand for F.ound I.n A. T.oilet. Give me a Toyota any day.

The little X-19 and Fiat 500 were classic cars, but installing A/C on the X-19 meant removing the entire body. I just remember having to use a hammer on nearly everything on the Fiats, it felt more like blacksmith work!

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I worked as a mechanic at a Fiat/Alfa Romeo dealership. The Alfa were OK cars, sorta. Better built than the Fiats, whose letters were thought to stand for F.ound I.n A. T.oilet. Give me a Toyota any day, they last forever.

The little X19 and Fiat 500 were classic cars, but installing A/C on the X19 meant removing the entire body. I just remember having to use a hammer on nearly everything on the Fiats, it felt more like blacksmith work!

I always heard FIAT stood for Fix It Again, Tony. Ford stands for Fix Or Repair Daily.

By comparison, my weird, funky, very quirky 1962 Nash Metropolitan was a paragon of reliability, even with its Lucas Electrics (David Lucas, Prince of Darkness) wiring and positive ground system. It could go a reasonably long time without needing repairs, and the things that broke were things that could reasonably be expected to wear out on a 40 year old car. It did get me in some sticky situations with shorting out because I drove through a puddle when it was raining. But that could always be dealt with by getting a push start or a jump, and then driving the car for 20+ minutes to recharge the battery.

 

[Besk]

I would take my chances with an Arax

 

[4season]

I have a Praktisix and Praktisix II in my repair queue. Fit and finish are decent, and these camera bodies are considerably lighter and more compact than Kiev 60. But unless you want a DIY project, buy from someone who has serviced the camera, as original lubricants turn into a waxy substance over time, and rubberized shutter curtains may need replacing (mine do). Praktisix internals are modular and pretty tidy, but if you get one that's a bit gummed-up from disuse, I wouldn't advise vigorously "exercising" it - get it properly serviced.

Kiev quality ranges from very good to so-so, maybe depending on how well-funded the factory was at the time. The prism finders add quite a bit of weight, so don't overlook the waist level finder.

 

[alanrockwood]

One strategy is to buy a Kiev 60 and try it out. If it's no good, buy another one. Sooner or later you will get a good one. Use the first one or two that you buy for spare parts, in case you have to fix the good one some day.

 

[LeoniD]

One strategy is to buy a Kiev 60 and try it out. If it's no good, buy another one. Sooner or later you will get a good one. Use the first one or two that you buy for spare parts, in case you have to fix the good one some day.

Or, you know, you could buy only one and CLA it like you should do with any camera.

I realize this like like asking which 1970s Italian car is most reliable, but I'm asking anyway. I have access to a 50mm Flektogon in P6 mount and it would be fun to give it a try. Would I be best off with an actual Pentacon 6, a Praktisix, or a Kiev of some flavor with the P6 mount (preferably gone over by Arax)? Or should I just run screaming the other direction and not bother.

Kiev-60 or 6C if you need 220.

 

[itsdoable]

I have a 50mm Flektogon, and I use it on a Pentacon Six TL and a Kiev 88cm, both of which have been reliable - and if anything, the Kiev has been better.

For the Pentacon, I would get the TL as it was the most recent, and thus likely to be younger, but any body from back then will need service as the grease and lube used would be thick. They are relatively easy to clean and lube though.

For Kiev 88's the CM's are needed for the P6 mount, and they are all later models. The one I have is from Arsenal (not a rebuild from ARAX or Hartblei) and was imported and filtered/tweaked by Kiev USA. Of all the Kiev's I have (including a Hartblei), it runs the smoothest.

Kiev 60's are reported to be more reliable, but I've not used them, I've never liked their looks.

 

[alanrockwood]

Or, you know, you could buy only one and CLA it like you should do with any camera.

Yes, that is also a good strategy.

 

[guangong]

I would go the way of either an adapter or have lens mount modified.

 

[Brendan Quirk]

he little X-19 and Fiat 500 were classic cars, but installing A/C on the X-19 meant removing the entire body. I just remember having to use a hammer on nearly everything on the Fiats, it felt more like blacksmith work!

I had three x-1/9s; 1976, 1981, and 1987. Miss them.

 

[Ian Leake]

I've recently bought an ARAX-60 which is a rebuilt and improved KIEV-60. I'm extremely pleased with it. Its Pentacon 6 mount means there's no shortage of affordable lenses.

They also do a upgraded KIEV-80 in case you're into system cameras.

 

[outwest]

Back when my Pentacon 6 became unreliable I purchased a brand new Kiev 60. It was a beautiful camera and lasted through 2 rolls of film. On loading the 3rd roll the bottom pulled off the shaft. I sent it back for replacement and never saw it again. But, I had all these nice lenses for it so I got a Mamiya 645 adapter for it and had use of all the lenses from 30mm to 300mm. That said, I tested the 50mm Flektagon against the Soviet version and kept the Soviet one. The multicoated 300 is a killer lens but the 180 is really sweet. The 30 was an amazing bargain, the 50 is decent but the 80 has recently died on me.

 

[ericB&W]

Abiword HTML Document
I have 2 kiev 60 , one black with mirror look up , flocked inside

and with all the improvements of the new Arax, another bought recently

silver traditional with no improvementes, both works properly.



In my opinion are the only cameras 6x6 still affordable now that

prices have grown too much , in Europe 3 years ago could find

a Pentax 645 body for 250 eu, now they sell for 400-450 ,

i've seen that also in Japan prices are higher, and are all electronic

cameras from 20 to 40 years old ,while Kiev being mechanical can be repaired easily.

One must pay attention to use properly but are good cameras with

bright finder, no battery problems with cold temperatures and good

lenses.

I have Flektogon 50mm, Mir 45mm, Kaleinar 150mm, Volna 80mm,

Telear 250mm and Zodiak 30mm.



Avoid Exakta 66 that is just a Pentacon six with a modern external look,

one of the most overvalued cameras in the world.

 

[Arthurwg]

Like a Harley Davidson? "Hardly Ever Run."

 

[moto-uno]

I liked my Pentacon 6TL so much I bought 2 more of them . It was kinda hard to decide
which of the last two I bought to use for parts . I never intended to buy another , but when
I bought a vinyl cover kit , it came with an additional covering .I'm easily led astray ! Peter

 

[beemermark]

I have a Kiev 6C with the 50mm Flektogon. The lens is the only reason I keep the camera. Fantastic lens. The 6C has never let me down in the 20 or so years I've owned it. Knock on wood -

 

[Larry Cloetta]

I’ve got an Arax and Pentacon Six that both work, but my main reason for posting is to second what one other person has hinted at, which is that there are a lot of superb lenses in Pentacon Six mount, not just the 50. And these lenses are superb in the realm of every lens every made, not just the realm of cheap lenses, which is where they fall in terms of cost.
I’ve used them adapted to my Contax 645, but adapting them to a non 6x6 format just handicaps them, so I abandoned that practice almost immediately. ”Most reliable cameras ever made?” No, but they’re reliable enough, especially an Arax, which isn’t all that expensive in modern camera world, and the renderings from the CZJ lenses are not, overall, like things you will get from anything else.
So, in answer to the OP question, yes, the lenses are good enough to merit buying the bodies, even with the potential pitfalls.

 

[takilmaboxer]

I always heard FIAT stood for Fix It Again, Tony. Ford stands for Fix Or Repair Daily.

By comparison, my weird, funky, very quirky 1962 Nash Metropolitan was a paragon of reliability, even with its Lucas Electrics (David Lucas, Prince of Darkness) wiring and positive ground system. It could go a reasonably long time without needing repairs, and the things that broke were things that could reasonably be expected to wear out on a 40 year old car. It did get me in some sticky situations with shorting out because I drove through a puddle when it was raining. But that could always be dealt with by getting a push start or a jump, and then driving the car for 20+ minutes to recharge the battery.

I thought Ford was "Found On Road, Dead." But that was 50 years ago. And the old Harleys were so prone to failure you had to take stimulants to keep up with the repairs.

 

[nosmok]

I have a Pentacon Six and a Kiev 6-- be aware there are slight differences in the lens mount that make it not quite 100% compatible-- my Penta lenses go onto the Kiev but barely lock in place. Hartblei sells a fix for that but as they are in Kiev be prepared for a bit of a wait. FWIW I like the Penta way better-- it's more compact and is easier to use somehow. Mine both work fine, maybe I'm just lucky.

 

[cptrios]

I'd love a Kiev 88 CM, but they seem to be pretty rare. Lots of them show up on eBay but they're often just mis-titled normal 88s.

 

[fpd2]

I know people who used Pentacon Six when it was new or relatively new - and they all recommended getting something else (such as Yashica TLR) or if I had to, then Kiev/Arax...P6 was notorious for overlapping frames, typically you'd drop it off for CLA right after purchasing just to be on the safe side, but it wasn't a guarantee of reliable service.

 

[moto-uno]

I think the most common cause of the overlapping frames had to do with 35mm practice of
overly fast wind and snap back release of the film advance lever . Neither of mine suffer from
this, and I'm seldom lucky with my camera purchases . Peter
check out the Pentaconsix site for more info .