Which Minox model?

xya

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
1,036
Location
Calais, Köln
Format
Multi Format
Donald Qualls said:
...I think the failure of selenium meters is overreported -- but I completely agree, they aren't much good in low light (especially the small cells usually found in small cameras).
Click to expand...
To me it seems to depend on the maker. Being German, I have about 30 Gossen meters (and I had more), be it single or built-in meters. A lot of camera makers bought meters from Gossen. Only one of them failed. Recently I bought 4 different Yashica half frame cameras with meter. All meters are dead. And no, I have not found a way to revive them...

There are Gossen meters with 2 ranges which are OK in low light. And then there is the Metraphot with 2 ranges and an extender. A marvel. https://www.120folder.com/lightmeters.htm
 

aw614

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2022
Messages
100
Location
Tampa, FL
Format
35mm
I only have a Minox EC that I found at a thrift store, though its all automated and uses a Mercury battery. Awaiting my lab to finish the developing/scanning on it as they had to 3d print some stuff for me. Not sure what I am going to expect, but using that small of a camera was a fun conversation starter
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,292
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
xya said:
Gossen. Only one of them failed.
Click to expand...

I had a Gossen Sixtomat that I bought used along with my first 35 mm camera (a Kodak Pony 135) in 1972; it finally failed after being dropped one time too many (meter movement knocked off its jewels) in 2006. Still not much good for anything dimmer than a well lit room, though. The ones with multiple ranges and extenders were quite a bit beyond any resources I had when selenium was still a major player (though I do have a working selenium meter now, one that I'd never have afforded when film was king).

aw614 said:
Mercury battery
Click to expand...

Worth noting that a single mercury cell can be replaced by a single zinc-air cell of matching dimension; the voltage is identical and discharge curve very close. It won't last as long, but you can still buy them (until the hearing aids they were designed for are so long gone there's no more demand, anyway). Some cameras and meters can be converted, too.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
xya said:
There are Gossen meters with 2 ranges which are OK in low light. And then there is the Metraphot with 2 ranges and an extender. A marvel. https://www.120folder.com/lightmeters.htm
Click to expand...

The Minolta Super A was one of the first cameras to have a coupled meter (selenium, of course) that attached to the top of the camera. It even had an accessory (which attached to the top of the meter) to increase the sensitivity in low light. So even the accessory had an accessory. And check out the round, white, incident panel -- in the photo-- even the accessory to the accessory had an accessory.

 
Last edited:

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format

And some cameras/meters made for 1.35v work fine with 1.5v. Others can get by with a change in the ISO. Tests are easy to do.
 

qqphot

Subscriber
Joined
Jul 12, 2022
Messages
218
Location
San Francisco, CA, USA
Format
35mm RF
I've seen a lot of Bs and Minox handheld meters and none have had accurate meters. I'm sure that some exist. I do have a Retina IIIc with a perfectly accurate selenium meter, for example.

I decided for myself that the Minox III / A was preferable - it's the smallest one, and there are tiny handheld meters (like KEKS KM-02) available today that pair well size-wise.
 
OP
OP

Donald Qualls

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
12,292
Location
North Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Well, it looks like when I have my tax refund in hand, I'll be checking eBay and posting in the Classifieds here, looking for a III/IIIs or B/BL.
 

guangong

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
3,589
Format
Medium Format
I was using a Digisix but finally tired of its battery consumption…always at the wrong time. For Minox III, now using Small Camera Big Meter (LunaPro), or no meter using Minox’ printed tables for exposure. With constant F stop, even I can remember recommended shutter speeds.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
qqphot said:
I decided for myself that the Minox III / A was preferable - it's the smallest one, and there are tiny handheld meters (like KEKS KM-02) available today that pair well size-wise.
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the Minox A is the same as the Minox II, not the Minox III. The Minox III was the first to use the Complan lens. Am I wrong???
 

FriedLouisStudio

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2023
Messages
187
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Format
35mm
"Minox A" is a EUROPEAN term that wasn't ever used in the US - I was reading photo mags from the early 60s, and never heard it until the mid-90s. It's a retronym for the postwar II, III and IIIS German models that preceded the Minox B.

You're right that the III was the first to use the Complan lens. The lens in the II actually touched the film... and could cause scratches.

In terms of popularity (and used prices now), there were MANY more IIIS and B cameras made than III and BL models. (There's a nice looking Minox B up at UsedPhotoPro right now for $99.)

More Minox info than you ever wanted here:

Minox 8x11 Variations

Minox 8x11 Subminiature Cameras variations
www.submin.com
 
Last edited:

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
Since the Minox A was produced with the features of the Minox II, the III, and the IIIs, it causes confusion when using simply the "Minox A" designation. One might just as well write "Minox", and not delineate any further.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
52,873
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
guangong said:
I was using a Digisix but finally tired of its battery consumption…always at the wrong time.
Click to expand...

I added a tiny resealable plastic bag to the inside of the tiny, harder-side case I use for the Digisix - the backup battery goes there.
A three-pack of the lithium CR3032 batteries is $1.25 plus tax in our local "Dollar" store.
 

guangong

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
3,589
Format
Medium Format
MattKing said:
I added a tiny resealable plastic bag to the inside of the tiny, harder-side case I use for the Digisix - the backup battery goes there.
A three-pack of the lithium CR3032 batteries is $1.25 plus tax in our local "Dollar" store.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the tip. Digisix is handy go everywhere meter. I bought mine years ago. Do they still have the built in thermometer for Polaroid? For easier use I still prefer my LunaPro. By the way, I believe you mentioned the battery adapter available for LunaPro. A belated thank you!

On the other hand, I only use three films of different speeds and since shutter speed is only variable with Minox, pretty easy to memorize recommended exposures.
 

FriedLouisStudio

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2023
Messages
187
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Format
35mm
xkaes said:
Since the Minox A was produced with the features of the Minox II, the III, and the IIIs, it causes confusion when using simply the "Minox A" designation. One might just as well write "Minox", and not delineate any further.
Click to expand...

They didn't start calling them Minox As until AFTER the appearance of the Minox B in 1958. My vintage-1956 IIIs is engraved "III" on the back, not "A".

And that was only in Europe: none of the American photo magazine ads or dealer listtings back in the 60s/70s called them Minox A. At the bottom of this 1960 ad, it's still "IIIS":



Since the II isn't a good shooter because of its funky lens (and only 17K were produced), and there were over 100K III and IIIs models produced, "A" pretty much always refers to the two III models, which are functonally identical apart from the PC connector atop the IIIs.

(Estimated production numbers are from the link I included last time. That site uses "AII", "AIII", and "AIIIs" to differentiate these 1951-1969 models.)
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
FriedLouisStudio said:
(Estimated production numbers are from the link I included last time. That site uses "AII", "AIII", and "AIIIs" to differentiate these 1951-1969 models.)
Click to expand...

Further confusing people. Now we have people referring to the exact same camera as the Minox II, the Minox AII, and the Minox A.
 

xya

Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
1,036
Location
Calais, Köln
Format
Multi Format
MattKing said:
I added a tiny resealable plastic bag to the inside of the tiny, harder-side case I use for the Digisix - the backup battery goes there.
A three-pack of the lithium CR3032 batteries is $1.25 plus tax in our local "Dollar" store.
Click to expand...
I did the same and I slide the battery holder out when I come home. I had a DigiSix for years and changed it for a DigiFlash. Same size. + flash feature...
 

FriedLouisStudio

Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2023
Messages
187
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Format
35mm
xkaes said:
Further confusing people. Now we have people referring to the exact same camera as the Minox II, the Minox AII, and the Minox A.
Click to expand...

Dude, you're making more of this designation issue than necessary.

Who even ever refers to the Minox II?!? It's only historically important as the first German-built Minox, is a poor shooter because of that fifth lens element touching the film, and they didn't make that many, so they're quite rare. Like the prewar Riga model, it's mainly a collectible, not a user camera. Worthy Minox shooters begin with the inclusion of the Complan lens (*) in the III.

( * More ingenious Walter Zapp tech: the "compensating plane" lens and pressure plate holds the film curved slightly inward to correct focus falloff in the corners!)

While there are notable variants in the long run of the III and IIIs besides the addition of flash sync - metric vs. English distance markings, black "Private Eye" models, changes to the two built-in filters, differences in the back engravings, etc. - they have far more in common than these petty differences. They retroactively became the "A" because they don't include the B's light meter, the big divider...

Though as I said above, I never saw/heard them referred to as the "A" until our Submini Mailing List discussions in the late 90s with our European friends.
 

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
I'm glad that this mis-designation is not confusing to you, but I know that it is to other people who are interested in Minox cameras. But this isn't just a Minox problem. Many other camera (and lens) manufacturers made significant changes to their cameras (and lenses), but did not change the designation -- confusing people at the time of production, and confusing them even more today.

Minolta probably takes the award for having six (or seven) versions of the SR-1 with major changes (some accepted meters, some did not; some had round viewfinder, some rectangular, etc.). The only change they made were changes to the user manual -- not to the name of the camera. Fuji might be the "runner up", making significant changes to many of their large format lenses (Multi-coating, optical design changes, etc.) but only changing the name of the lens on the cardboard box it came in -- keeping the name on the lens the same -- constantly confusing sellers and buyers. Since I have both a Minolta and a Fuji website, I hear about this all the time.
 

tjwspm

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2023
Messages
327
Location
Germany
Format
Sub 35mm
Donald Qualls said:
Well, it looks like when I have my tax refund in hand, I'll be checking eBay and posting in the Classifieds here, looking for a III/IIIs or B/BL.
Click to expand...
I feel the same way. For me there are the following reasons that clearly speak in favor of a Minox A/IIIs

1. It is the authentic Minox, the big hit. It is the last Minox model that was completely designed by Walter Zapp. Only the flash synchronization of the Model III no longer came from him. All later Minox models were only developed after he had already left the Minox company.

2. The later models B, BL, C, LX offer no significant further advantages apart from exposure metering or exposure control. But they are all significantly larger than the Minox A/IIIs. For cameras whose main design goal is tiny size, this is a crucial point.

3. In my experience, the Minox A/IIIs takes equally good pictures as its successors. So if you can expose according to Sunny 16 - and that's easier with today's films than it was 70 years ago - the later Minox models offer no advantages. But they are bigger. From this point of view I think the Minox C is the worst in this regard.

4. The coolness of the smallest, oldest (yes, there is also the pre-war model from Riga) is unsurpassed in my opinion.

I own the Minox A/IIIs (3 pieces), the B, BL and LX. All of them work (including the selenium light meter on the B) and I have taken many photos with them, but I now only take photos with the Minox A/IIIs. Of my three, I prefer this one:

The ugliest Minox A I've ever seen ...

... now belongs to me. When I saw this Minox, I couldn't resist. It's so run down that it's almost beautiful again: It was built in 1954, so it is a Type A IIIs. Damage caused by impacts, heavy abrasion everywhere and even pitting in the housing: After carefully pulling it apart - very...
www.photrio.com
 
Last edited:

xkaes

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,789
Location
Colorado
Format
Multi Format
As a IIIs user myself, I think it is the best choice. I have a hot shoe adapter, which can be used -- but even the smallest flashes are bigger than the camera, and don't have much power. The best flash is the Minolta 118X flash because it's relatively small and offers manual mode, and TWO auto-exposure modes (ISO 100 or 400) both at f4, which is perfect for the IIIs.

I'll add that not all "Minox" cameras that offer auto-exposure are larger than the III/IIIs. I have the Acmel (Asanuma) MD which uses the same body as the Minox MX -- actually, it's the reverse. It's as small as the III/IIIs, with a focusing lens, but no manual shutter speed adjustment, and no spy finder. It was also sold by Fuji.

So I have both.
 

tjwspm

Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2023
Messages
327
Location
Germany
Format
Sub 35mm
Yes, the Minox EC is also an alternative to the Minox A/IIIs. If the lighting conditions and the distance are right, the EC takes equally good pictures as the A/IIIs. The size of the two is roughly the same, but the EC is a little lighter. Since you don't have to set the distance or shutter speed, it is a real point and shoot camera.

Minox EC and Minox A/IIIs:

 

guangong

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
3,589
Format
Medium Format
Set focus distance at 12ft and all Minox cameras are basically point and shoot for all but extreme close ups.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…