Which MF camera?

[Sirius Glass]

I'm going to set the over/under prediction for this thread at 10 pages. EVERYBODY has an opinion (including me!). It's all good, though. Lots of opinions mean lots of things to consider.

I have 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, and 6x9 medium format cameras. They each have something unique to offer. The joy of medium format is all of that glorious negative area. It's tempting to say go big or go home, but lots of medium format enlargers are limited to 6x7 negatives and smaller. Except for some old folders with primitive lenses and quirks, most of the 6x7 and larger formats will be out of your price range.

I'm partial to 6x7 if you can print it with your enlarger. I have several Bronica cameras, including a GS-1 system. Bronica cameras are workhorses with excellent leaf shutter lenses. Leaf shutter lenses will sync at any shutter speed, which is nice if you're working with flash/strobe systems very much (especially portraiture). They don't have the bellows of an RB67 or RZ67. They also don't focus as closely if that's important. A decent GS-1 body, with a 100mm lens, finder, and film back can be had for $500+.

I'm not a fan of 6x6 format. I know I'm in the minority here about that. I almost never print square. I prefer the proportions of 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, 16x20 images over square images when printed and framed. That's just me. If you're going to crop to a rectangle, you might as well shoot a rectangle unless you're a wedding photographer who doesn't want to rotate a large camera for portrait and landscape oriented shots. If you print a rectangle from 6x6, you're effectively throwing away the extra negative area over a 645 system. Still, that doesn't stop me from owning a few 6x6 cameras because they have other characteristics I like. TLRs are fun and I like the couple I own, but I wouldn't suggest one for someone's only MF camera.

The 645 format is the least expensive medium format to get into. There are lots of good examples. You could afford a Bronica ETR with multiple lenses, backs, and a non-metered finder for $500. I have a couple of them and they're fine systems. You can even get into autofocus 645 MF cameras, but probably not for $500.

I've suggested system cameras with interchangeable lenses, back, and finders. Those offer huge flexibility and if one part fails, it's sometimes cheaper to buy a replacement than get it repaired. Film backs in particular can wear to a point where they give uneven spacing to the film. Unless it's a rare camera, I just get another back for less than the cost of repairing the bad one.

I greatly prefer 6x6. 645 looks too much like 35mm on much less film. 645 does not allow much left for cropping. I also believe in cropping before photographing.

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

At today's prices the best bang for the buck is a Hasselblad. It will just take a little longer to by the next lens, but it is worth it.

Due to the devaluing of film gear in recent years, I was able to buy a Hasselblad. I wanted one for over 30 years. It's a great camera. I only touched one while I was a photo assistant. My original camera when I was a pro was a Mamiya RZ. Both the RZ and the Hassy have sharp lenses. I think it terms size, how good it feels in your hands, I prefer the Hassy.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Yes, one needs to buy three, count them, three (3) Rolleiflex TLRs, wide, normal and tele. Then imaging wearing all three around ones neck walking down the street taking vacation photographs. I for one rather carrying ONE camera and THREE lens, RATHER THAN wearing THREE CAMERAS.

Some days I worry how scared you are of Rolleiflexes. It's like someone who got bit by a stray dog and every time they ever see a stray dog again they spend the next fifteen minutes telling you how bad stray dogs are. What DID a Rolleiflex do to you to make you so scared of them? Have you considered therapy?

Now let me tell you about the time I was using a Hasselblad and as I looked into the black hole of the focus screen after firing the shutter, a chicken in the shot was so scared by the mirror clunk that it ran at me from in front and pecked my toe so hard it bled!! And I couldn't see it coming because the godd*** mirror was still up.... The horror, the horror.... Things like that never happen with a Rolleiflex. Or a YashicaMat, Mamiya C220, Minolta Autocord, Rolleicord.... hmmm, what DO these camera have in common, eh?

 

[film_man]

Just curious, in what way are these impossible to repair? In the US at least, they are services and repaired by Eric Henderson ( https://pentaxs.com ) though I don't know if there are some things he can't fix. I know most old cameras no longer have parts supplies, but I was under the impression that he kept a supply of broken cameras to scavenge parts off of.

When they start having spacing issues the winding mechanism needs to be replaced and from what I've found out in the UK the parts are no longer available. May be fixable in the US but I wouldn't risk it. Great cameras otherwise...

 

[markjwyatt]

... Things like that never happen with a Rolleiflex. Or a YashicaMat, Mamiya C220, Minolta Autocord, Rolleicord.... hmmm, what DO these camera have in common, eh?

Other than the mirror (SLR vs. TLR), there is a difference among all but one of those TLRs- only the C220 has interchangeable lenses.

In a related thought, my dog gets scared of the ultrasonic hum (I speculate) on autofocus lenses. A simple mechanical camera is no issue.

 

[warden]

Yes, one needs to buy three, count them, three (3) Rolleiflex TLRs, wide, normal and tele. Then imaging wearing all three around ones neck walking down the street taking vacation photographs. I for one rather carrying ONE camera and THREE lens, RATHER THAN wearing THREE CAMERAS.

Why are you shouting?

I'd rather take one camera and one lens, and that's what I do even when I'm carrying a Hasselblad, which is no better than other quality MF cameras.

 

[film_man]

Yes, one needs to buy three, count them, three (3) Rolleiflex TLRs, wide, normal and tele. Then imaging wearing all three around ones neck walking down the street taking vacation photographs. I for one rather carrying ONE camera and THREE lens, RATHER THAN wearing THREE CAMERAS.

Then you wake up and realise that some people are happy with just a standard lens. If someone wants the full gamut of focal lengths and tries to achieve that using fixed lens cameras well then that person is an idiot.

In any case, I would argue that when you are going on vacation you are not going on some national geographic expedition, hence carrying around 4kg of equipment (be it Hasselblads with lenses or 3 TLRs) is idiotic. But whatever floats your boat.

Finally, if you think you are being clever by carrying a Hasselblad with 3 lenses vs 3 TLRs...well let me introduce you to the Mamiya 6. The entire 3-lens outfit weighs just over what a 500CM with one 80mm lens does. As a bonus you can shoot it handheld at 1/8 (just like a TLR) while you turn yourself into tripod man trying to get something usable at 1/15 with the Hassy.

 

[removed account4]

hi OP
do you have any other requirements ?
do you need modern lenses, a modern body?
do you need to be able to remove and put new lenses on ?
do you need glass lenses or a lens at all ?
big or small camera ?
professional looking professional or just good looking ?

i ask all these question because you can easily buy a holga, or folding camera
zeiss ikon or nettar or strut camera or a TLR ( many many to choose from )
and still have a TON of $$ left over so if the camera can't be repaired ( anything can be repaired kind of sort of
especially if you send your camera to a shop with a lathe where parts can be made )
or you can buy a old professional camera that has probably been used like a cop car driven
so it looks nice but the guts are so warn out its got the equivilant of 900,000 miles on it ...
if it was me, i'd get something not too expensive and pocket the $$ so you can pay for repairs down the road
you can also get the pinhole or zone plate camera, sweet wooden hand made and make photographs that
your friends and family will wonder how you did it ...

good luck !
john

 

[warden]

It's fun spending other people's money. The OP is in Asia so this might be no help, but in the US we have Keh.com which offers used gear with a warranty. I'm sure there are others. There are outstanding choices at the $500 and below price point. Rolleiflex, Yashica, Hasselblad, Fuji, all under $500 for a functional camera, with a lens, and with a warranty too. What a great time to be a film photographer.

And they have a Voightlander Bessa II (a 6x9 folder, perfect for walking) for $528 in excellent condition. If I didn't already have too many cameras and too little money that Voightlander would be on its way to me. 6x9!

If you take bad photos with any of the above the problem is not the camera.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Some days I worry how scared you are of Rolleiflexes. It's like someone who got bit by a stray dog and every time they ever see a stray dog again they spend the next fifteen minutes telling you how bad stray dogs are. What DID a Rolleiflex do to you to make you so scared of them? Have you considered therapy?

It is called Rolleiflex bling.

Now let me tell you about the time I was using a Hasselblad and as I looked into the black hole of the focus screen after firing the shutter, a chicken in the shot was so scared by the mirror clunk that it ran at me from in front and pecked my toe so hard it bled!! And I couldn't see it coming because the godd*** mirror was still up.... The horror, the horror.... Things like that never happen with a Rolleiflex. Or a YashicaMat, Mamiya C220, Minolta Autocord, Rolleicord.... hmmm, what DO these camera have in common, eh?

The rest of the world including me do not have a problem with that. Either cock the camera and advance the film or use a power winder which still weighs a lot less than three cameras. By the way, I often carry three lenses with me, it is part of my fitness program.

 

[Alan Gales]

I also believe in cropping before photographing.

So that's what my two legs and two feet are for!

 

[chris77]

hi OP
do you have any other requirements ?
do you need modern lenses, a modern body?
do you need to be able to remove and put new lenses on ?
do you need glass lenses or a lens at all ?
big or small camera ?
professional looking professional or just good looking ?

i ask all these question because you can easily buy a holga, or folding camera
zeiss ikon or nettar or strut camera or a TLR ( many many to choose from )
and still have a TON of $$ left over so if the camera can't be repaired ( anything can be repaired kind of sort of
especially if you send your camera to a shop with a lathe where parts can be made )
or you can buy a old professional camera that has probably been used like a cop car driven
so it looks nice but the guts are so warn out its got the equivilant of 900,000 miles on it ...
if it was me, i'd get something not too expensive and pocket the $$ so you can pay for repairs down the road
you can also get the pinhole or zone plate camera, sweet wooden hand made and make photographs that
your friends and family will wonder how you did it ...

good luck !
john

+11 but then there is still the rz67 or Rb

 

[warden]

It is called Rolleiflex bling.
By the way, I often carry three lenses with me, it is part of my fitness program.

If you carried three whole cameras you'd be healthier, and have better cameras too.

 

[Sirius Glass]

If you carried three whole cameras you'd be healthier, and have better cameras too.

But then I would be cursed with the left right reversal [right left reversal in the UK] which I eliminate with a prism. Adding three prisms to the three Rolleis would really add to the weight and the bling.

 

[AgX]

Yes, one needs to buy three, count them, three (3) Rolleiflex TLRs, wide, normal and tele. Then imaging wearing all three around ones neck walking down the street taking vacation photographs. I for one rather carrying ONE camera and THREE lens, RATHER THAN wearing THREE CAMERAS.

But I always thought it was just because of this that there is the term of "sporting a camera"...

 

[warden]

But then I would be cursed with the left right reversal [right left reversal in the UK] which I eliminate with a prism. Adding three prisms to the three Rolleis would really add to the weight and the bling.

To quote Sirius Glass, "The rest of the world including me do no have a problem with that."

 

[rbultman]

I'd pick a system for your first with a body+lens+back+whatever to make a complete camera that you can then go on and add to. Lots of systems fit this bill, including SLR's and rangefinders (though perhaps not in the $500 range).

I started in MF with a Mamiya 645, then picked up several other cameras and systems including MAT-124G, RB-67 Pro SD, Texas Leica, and a Frank folder. I love them all but frequently gravitate back to the 645 system due to the size (relative to RB) and the number of great lenses. The MAT and folder can be wonderfully limiting (think one camera, one lens, one film) and can typically be picked up for not much money.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of the recommendations given here.

 

[removed account4]

+11 but then there is still the rz67 or Rb

yeah, that too

 

[Pieter12]

"If you print a rectangle from 6x6, you're effectively throwing away the extra negative area over a 645 system"

Besides the fact that the square format is a kind of zen for me, the advantage is you can think of it as shooting the equivalent of a horizontal and vertical 645 at the same time if you end up printing 8x10, etc.

 

[lecarp]

Yes, one needs to buy three, count them, three (3) Rolleiflex TLRs, wide, normal and tele. Then imaging wearing all three around ones neck walking down the street taking vacation photographs. I for one rather carrying ONE camera and THREE lens, RATHER THAN wearing THREE CAMERAS.

Rolleiflex, what a wonderful way to justify buying three cameras. If you buy three hassy cameras is it out of fear two will Jam! Lol.

 

[markjwyatt]

If you carried three whole cameras you'd be healthier, and have better cameras too.

And a bad back!

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I would advise against getting an old Pentax 6x7 as that is now impossible to repair (I had one). If you can find a 67 though for $500 maybe that would be a good one. There's also the Mamiya 645 stuff which is great (the manual focus ones, not the AF ones obviously).

Not true at all. The Pentax 6x7 / 67 cameras readily repairable by a competent service person who has worked on medium format cameras, some overhauling them to as-new condition. As with all medium format cameras available now, new parts are often taken from like-bodies during repairs. This introduces a cycle of redundancy and does not eliminate unreliability over time.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

Hi everyone,
I would like to step up to MF. I'm okay to spend up to USD500 (complete with a standard lens and film back) on a 66, 645 or 67. My requirements are that they should not be difficult or expensive to repair and spare parts readily available. Thank you for your replies.
Blessed day!

Well... What do you do with your photographs? Do you actually print them? Or do you just scan your negatives?

Because if you actually print them, before stepping up to another format you should consider if the rest of your gear is ready for the step-up. Most enlargers that print 135 and 120 film can't print 6x7, so you will also have to change the enlarger. Accessories to convert a 135 elarger to 120 are not always easy to find by the way.

Perhaps if you explain more in detail what you have in mind to do, you would get more sensible replies rather than a full list of all the equipment affordable worldwide with your budget.

 

[macfred]

Becoming Medium Format http://codex.bluemooncamera.com/2014/02/21/becoming-medium-format/

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

As this seems to be a first MF camera, it will probably be the wrong one. At least I have never been able to settle before the 3rd or 4th try, so I´d start cheap with a Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta 533/16. You should be able to find one in working condition (including rangefinder and light meter) for only half of your budget. A very good camera to start MF, small, handy, not so heavy, decent quality, good lens (even the uncoated ones) and relatively easy to service.

If you prefer a TLR, I´d try with an old Rolleicord or Rolleiflex Automat, which are both very good cameras, too.