Which MF camera?

ANCS · Sep 25, 2018

Hi everyone,
I would like to step up to MF. I'm okay to spend up to USD500 (complete with a standard lens and film back) on a 66, 645 or 67. My requirements are that they should not be difficult or expensive to repair and spare parts readily available. Thank you for your replies.
Blessed day!

Dennis-B · Sep 25, 2018

That's a tall order. None of the "classic" medium format cameras are in production, and the supply of repair/replacement parts is drying up by the day.

You may want to consider the Mamiya C330. They're sturdy, have interchangeable lenses, and the 6x6 format is very versatile. There are also Yashica 6x6's out there, especially later model 124G's. Downside there is the need for mercury cell batteries for the metering system.

There are Bronica ETRs (6x4.5), SQ (6x6), and GS (6x7) models. They're all sturdy, and can be bought within your budget.

For heavier 6x7, the Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 models are still available. They're work horses, and parts and repair are available. There are also iterations of the Mamiya 645. The older 645's have a nice following, and a lot of folks like them better than the newer Super and Pro models.

EdSawyer · Sep 25, 2018

Might get into a rolleiflex for that price, possibly.

narsuitus · Sep 25, 2018

Consider a Pentax 645.

Dan Daniel · Sep 25, 2018

First time with medium format? Don't spend $500. Get a Rolleicord, Pentax 645, Bronica ETR, Yashica D, maybe look at folders. The chances are that you will try a few different types of cameras- TLR, SLR, Fuji viewfinder, etc.- before you find the right style(s) for you. In the meantime you need to find out if medium format is worthwhile for you- is the inconvenience (slower operation, fewer images per roll, film harder to find) worth it for the different image quality?Does 6x.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 give you what you want?

Medium format SLRs (which your list implies might be your desired camera) come in two camps- those that can be repaired (basically Hasselblad) and those which can be cheaply replaced (such as Bronicas).

Why do you want to use medium format? What kind of shooting do you see yourself doing? Do you use a tripod? Will you use a tripod?

jspillane · Sep 25, 2018

If you are patient, you should be able to get most non-rangefinder MF systems with a standard lens for that price (even Hasselblad! although it might be a longer wait).

It really depends on other needs that you may or may not have. Do you like to travel? Do you want more lenses eventually? Do you use a flash system? etc...
The four I would recommend looking at are not the cheapest, but I do think they are the 'best' for most users:

Hasselblad 500c/m (or 500c, can be found a little cheaper)
The classic. Personally my most used system. It's really a swiss army knife - 6x6 and 6x45 backs available, all lenses excellent, flash sync up to 1/500s, small and portable body, and in production for an extremely long time - resulting in plenty of backup bodies and lenses, and many available technicians. The system is 100% mechanical, no batteries or electronics. the 80mm 2.8 is a brilliant and compact lens. Speciality lenses (I'm still waiting for a reasonably priced 100mm 3.5...) and accessories can quickly get extremely expensive, though. The older C and CT* lenses are much cheaper than the newer CF/CFi lenses for 95% of the performance. The 120 5.6 S-Planar is an absolutely killer optic that can be found for low prices.

Budget alternative would be a Bronica SQ, a very similar system but without the sexy body/lens design. the Bronica SQ can be found for a song in comparison to a Hasselblad kit - I expect repairs might be harder as it involves electronics and they aren't quite as ubiquitous, but they are cheap enough that it should be easy to replace anything for the foreseeable future, even if repairs are difficult.

Pentax 6x7
A beast, often compared to the handling of a 35mm SLR on steroids. Killer lenses and extremely good prices on lenses (bodies a little pricey compared to many) - honestly, I think the build quality on the Takumars exceeds even that of the Zeiss glass for the Hasselblad. If you want long or fast glass on a huge negative, they are a great option. The standard 105 2.4 is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant lens.

Mamiya RZ 67
The apex if you work primarily in studio/on tripod. Rotating back, bellows focusing, absolutely top notch lenses. For the quality involved, the prices today are a joke. If you want flexibility and top quality, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something better - although it lacks the elegance of the Hasselblad or the bomb-proof feeling of the Pentax. It would be my top choice if I knew I was going to be working primarily in a studio setting, but as a do-all/go-anywhere solution I think it would take third place.

Rolleiflex TLR
If you want high quality and high portability and don't need interchangeable lenses and backs, nothing beats a Rolleiflex. It is a much more limited system, though, and prices can get high. If you go this route, I would reccomend buying a body you have the ability to return, and checking it's focus at all distances - sometimes the front standard can get knocked out of alignment but can be hard to see unless you are shooting wide open. Prices very widely, but an older 3.5 model or a non-pristine 2.8 model can be found under $500 (I got a 2.8D in VG condition for $300... again... patience pays off).

ANCS · Sep 25, 2018

Dennis-B said:
That's a tall order. None of the "classic" medium format cameras are in production, and the supply of repair/replacement parts is drying up by the day.

You may want to consider the Mamiya C330. They're sturdy, have interchangeable lenses, and the 6x6 format is very versatile. There are also Yashica 6x6's out there, especially later model 124G's. Downside there is the need for mercury cell batteries for the metering system.

There are Bronica ETRs (6x4.5), SQ (6x6), and GS (6x7) models. They're all sturdy, and can be bought within your budget.

For heavier 6x7, the Mamiya RB67 and RZ67 models are still available. They're work horses, and parts and repair are available. There are also iterations of the Mamiya 645. The older 645's have a nice following, and a lot of folks like them better than the newer Super and Pro models.

I've been reading a little about the Bronicas and if one comes along in very good condition, I might buy it.
Thanks for recommending the Mamiya C330 and 645. Seems okay, but I'm a little cautious about pin holes in the C330 bellows or if it is replaceable.

Sirius Glass · Sep 25, 2018

At today's prices the best bang for the buck is a Hasselblad. It will just take a little longer to by the next lens, but it is worth it.

ANCS · Sep 25, 2018

Dan Daniel said:
First time with medium format? Don't spend $500. Get a Rolleicord, Pentax 645, Bronica ETR, Yashica D, maybe look at folders. The chances are that you will try a few different types of cameras- TLR, SLR, Fuji viewfinder, etc.- before you find the right style(s) for you. In the meantime you need to find out if medium format is worthwhile for you- is the inconvenience (slower operation, fewer images per roll, film harder to find) worth it for the different image quality?Does 6x.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 give you what you want?

Medium format SLRs (which your list implies might be your desired camera) come in two camps- those that can be repaired (basically Hasselblad) and those which can be cheaply replaced (such as Bronicas).

Why do you want to use medium format? What kind of shooting do you see yourself doing? Do you use a tripod? Will you use a tripod?

Yes, first time (kind of). I actually like square format. Even 67 is quite nice. Sometimes, I feel 35mm format is a little too long, especially in portrait view. 645 crop is okay with me.

ANCS · Sep 25, 2018

jspillane said:
If you are patient, you should be able to get most non-rangefinder MF systems with a standard lens for that price (even Hasselblad! although it might be a longer wait).

It really depends on other needs that you may or may not have. Do you like to travel? Do you want more lenses eventually? Do you use a flash system? etc...
The four I would recommend looking at are not the cheapest, but I do think they are the 'best' for most users:

Hasselblad 500c/m (or 500c, can be found a little cheaper)
The classic. Personally my most used system. It's really a swiss army knife - 6x6 and 6x45 backs available, all lenses excellent, flash sync up to 1/500s, small and portable body, and in production for an extremely long time - resulting in plenty of backup bodies and lenses, and many available technicians. The system is 100% mechanical, no batteries or electronics. the 80mm 2.8 is a brilliant and compact lens. Speciality lenses (I'm still waiting for a reasonably priced 100mm 3.5...) and accessories can quickly get extremely expensive, though. The older C and CT* lenses are much cheaper than the newer CF/CFi lenses for 95% of the performance. The 120 5.6 S-Planar is an absolutely killer optic that can be found for low prices.

Budget alternative would be a Bronica SQ, a very similar system but without the sexy body/lens design. the Bronica SQ can be found for a song in comparison to a Hasselblad kit - I expect repairs might be harder as it involves electronics and they aren't quite as ubiquitous, but they are cheap enough that it should be easy to replace anything for the foreseeable future, even if repairs are difficult.

Pentax 6x7
A beast, often compared to the handling of a 35mm SLR on steroids. Killer lenses and extremely good prices on lenses (bodies a little pricey compared to many) - honestly, I think the build quality on the Takumars exceeds even that of the Zeiss glass for the Hasselblad. If you want long or fast glass on a huge negative, they are a great option. The standard 105 2.4 is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant lens.

Mamiya RZ 67
The apex if you work primarily in studio/on tripod. Rotating back, bellows focusing, absolutely top notch lenses. For the quality involved, the prices today are a joke. If you want flexibility and top quality, I think you'd be hard pressed to find something better - although it lacks the elegance of the Hasselblad or the bomb-proof feeling of the Pentax. It would be my top choice if I knew I was going to be working primarily in a studio setting, but as a do-all/go-anywhere solution I think it would take third place.

Rolleiflex TLR
If you want high quality and high portability and don't need interchangeable lenses and backs, nothing beats a Rolleiflex. It is a much more limited system, though, and prices can get high. If you go this route, I would reccomend buying a body you have the ability to return, and checking it's focus at all distances - sometimes the front standard can get knocked out of alignment but can be hard to see unless you are shooting wide open. Prices very widely, but an older 3.5 model or a non-pristine 2.8 model can be found under $500 (I got a 2.8D in VG condition for $300... again... patience pays off).

Hasselblad would be great. Haven't seen one that met my budget yet
Unlikely to use it for travel.
I guess Bronica SQ should do for me.
Thanks

Alan Gales · Sep 25, 2018

The first thing that you need to decide is which format you want.

Shooting square is a lot different from shooting rectangular. If you are going to shoot square and then always crop to a rectangle than you might want to buy a 645. The 645 cameras are generally less expensive and you get the most pictures per roll of film.

Square is square. Many wedding photographers liked shooting square because they did not have to worry about camera orientation when shooting. They would just crop later when printing. Some love printing square. Others prefer printing rectangles. If you presently shoot rectangular 35mm then I think that shooting square may help get those creative juices flowing. Or you may hate it.

If you want the largest negative then 6x7 is the largest of the three. It's also the largest and the heaviest camera. You also get less pictures per roll of film so that costs you more. The lenses are also larger and heavier. If you want to go backpacking with a 6x7 and a lens kit then you might want to consider the Mamiya 7. It is not inexpensive.

Now, if you are totally undecided then I do have a suggestion. Mamiya C220 TLR's are dirt cheap. They have fine lenses which are also dirt cheap. It would be an inexpensive way to try out medium format. The only real negative thing is that the widest lens made for the C220 and C330 line are 55mm which is similar to a 35mm lens on a 35mm camera. If you prefer a wider lens then the camera is not for you.

skysh4rk · Sep 25, 2018

ANCS said:
Hasselblad would be great. Haven't seen one that met my budget yet
Unlikely to use it for travel.
I guess Bronica SQ should do for me.
Thanks

I have owned both Hasselblads and Bronicas.

Bronicas deliver the same results for less money, with fewer quirks, and better ergonomics. In terms of MF SLR systems, Bronicas offer a great performance:cost ratio.

That said, the Hasselblad system is more extensive, allowing access to unusual camera bodies (e.g., Flexbody) and lenses (e.g., 110mm f/2 lens is the best MF lens I've ever owned). Hasselblads also have a classic and more timeless aesthetic, which may be more important to some users.

Arklatexian · Sep 25, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
At today's prices the best bang for the buck is a Hasselblad. It will just take a little longer to by the next lens, but it is worth it.

Yes Sirius, it is that first purchase that leads to addiction and that is true of Hasselblad also. But, what a nice addiction. I have that addiction so I must agree.......Regards!

warden · Sep 25, 2018

Dan Daniel said:
First time with medium format? Don't spend $500. Get a Rolleicord, Pentax 645, Bronica ETR, Yashica D, maybe look at folders. The chances are that you will try a few different types of cameras- TLR, SLR, Fuji viewfinder, etc.- before you find the right style(s) for you. In the meantime you need to find out if medium format is worthwhile for you- is the inconvenience (slower operation, fewer images per roll, film harder to find) worth it for the different image quality?Does 6x.5, 6x6, 6x7, 6x9 give you what you want?

Medium format SLRs (which your list implies might be your desired camera) come in two camps- those that can be repaired (basically Hasselblad) and those which can be cheaply replaced (such as Bronicas).

Why do you want to use medium format? What kind of shooting do you see yourself doing? Do you use a tripod? Will you use a tripod?

That's excellent advice. I started with a Holga for laughs, and then got a TLR Yashica, followed by a SLR Hasselblad, and then finally a camera design that fits my needs best, a rangefinder folder Makina. I wouldn't have known that the rangefinder was best for me at first, and needed to try the others.

film_man · Sep 25, 2018

First decide on a format. Then you have to beware that $500 on a medium format camera may mean one that will need a service pretty soon, ie another $100-200 just for a normal service. On the other hand, my experience with repairs is that they all pretty much cost the same nowadays.

For $500 you can easily get a very good condition one of those:
Mamiya RB67 ProS or ProSD (don't bother with the plain Pro)
Mamiya C330S (latest model)
Bronica SQAi/SQB
Bronica ETRSi (latest)

These are all great cameras, the SQB was my first medium format camera.

You could probably find a beat up Hasselblad 500C or 500CM but up to you to decide if you want to spring another $150 or so for a service. It would be easier to find a 500ELX body (they seem to go for less). These actually handle better (in my books at least) but make sure it takes AA batteries or get one of those 9V/2CRP adapters.

I would advise against getting an old Pentax 6x7 as that is now impossible to repair (I had one). If you can find a 67 though for $500 maybe that would be a good one. There's also the Mamiya 645 stuff which is great (the manual focus ones, not the AF ones obviously).

You can get some other stuff like folders or some Russian stuff but I would not consider them as a first "step up" camera.

My choice would be a Mamiya RB67 ProSD with a 90KL lens. That is a step up in everything, quality, wow factor when you look at the finder, WOWOHMYGOD factor when you get the negs/photos from the lab and obviously a massive step up in size and weight

Mainecoonmaniac · Sep 25, 2018

ANCS said:
Hi everyone,
I would like to step up to MF. I'm okay to spend up to USD500 (complete with a standard lens and film back) on a 66, 645 or 67. My requirements are that they should not be difficult or expensive to repair and spare parts readily available. Thank you for your replies.
Blessed day!

How do you plan to use your MF camera? Do you want something compact? If you know you want to change format sizes or be able to change film types on the fly, a film back is a consideration. Most MF cameras with film backs tend to be SLR while most range finders like Fuji GSW don't have film backs.

abruzzi · Sep 25, 2018

film_man said:
I would advise against getting an old Pentax 6x7 as that is now impossible to repair (I had one). If you can find a 67 though for $500 maybe that would be a good one. There's also the Mamiya 645 stuff which is great (the manual focus ones, not the AF ones obviously).

Just curious, in what way are these impossible to repair? In the US at least, they are services and repaired by Eric Henderson ( https://pentaxs.com ) though I don't know if there are some things he can't fix. I know most old cameras no longer have parts supplies, but I was under the impression that he kept a supply of broken cameras to scavenge parts off of.

MattKing · Sep 25, 2018

Are you left handed or right handed?
I ask the question, not because the answer is determinative of the answer to your question, but because it illustrates an important point.
I am left handed, and I have reduced dexterity in my right hand. My three main MF cameras (yes I have too many cameras) all work well for me. The important point is that ergonomics are really important to the results you obtain and the enjoyment you get from your camera
In my case, I own and regularly use and can recommend the following three systems:
1) a Mamiya C330. I have owned this camera since I bought it from the store I was working in in the late 1970s - it was the store demonstrator. At one time I had multiple lenses, a backup C220 body and many accessories, and used it for wedding photography. It has been durable and there has never been a problem with the bellows, which I expect to last for decades more. I have streamlined my set - I'm down to the single C330 body, two lenses, two finders, a left hand trigger grip and two paramenders;
2) a Mamiya 645 Pro. I have owned a couple of different bodies in this series since about 2005. I use and appreciate the changeable film backs and really like the wide variety of lenses and accessories available. I currently own one body, five lenses, a left hand grip, an AE finder, a WL finder, a power winder, and several backs and inserts;
3) a Mamiya RB67 Pro-S. I have owned a couple of different bodies in this series since about 2010. I use and appreciate the changeable film backs and really like the wide variety of lenses and accessories available. I currently own one body, four lenses, a left hand grip (same as the one for the C330), a WL finder and several backs and inserts. There is a bellows in this camera as well, and it too is very durable.
In each case, the usability of these cameras (for me) is greatly aided by the availability of the left hand grip I have.
I hope my perspective assists you, but I'd suggest that it is your own personal needs and affinities that are most important.

Sirius Glass · Sep 25, 2018

Arklatexian said:
Yes Sirius, it is that first purchase that leads to addiction and that is true of Hasselblad also. But, what a nice addiction. I have that addiction so I must agree.......Regards!

Buying a Hasselblad is like trying to eat just one potato chip.

macfred · Sep 25, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
Buying a Hasselblad is like trying to eat just one potato chip.

That's why I prefer my Rolleiflex TLR - there's not so much accessory equipment to go for ...

Sirius Glass · Sep 25, 2018

macfred said:
That's why I prefer my Rolleiflex TLR - there's not so much accessory equipment to go for ...

Yes, one needs to buy three, count them, three (3) Rolleiflex TLRs, wide, normal and tele. Then imaging wearing all three around ones neck walking down the street taking vacation photographs. I for one rather carrying ONE camera and THREE lens, RATHER THAN wearing THREE CAMERAS.

Mike Bates · Sep 25, 2018

I'm going to set the over/under prediction for this thread at 10 pages. EVERYBODY has an opinion (including me!). It's all good, though. Lots of opinions mean lots of things to consider.

I have 645, 6x6, 6x7, 6x8, and 6x9 medium format cameras. They each have something unique to offer. The joy of medium format is all of that glorious negative area. It's tempting to say go big or go home, but lots of medium format enlargers are limited to 6x7 negatives and smaller. Except for some old folders with primitive lenses and quirks, most of the 6x7 and larger formats will be out of your price range.

I'm partial to 6x7 if you can print it with your enlarger. I have several Bronica cameras, including a GS-1 system. Bronica cameras are workhorses with excellent leaf shutter lenses. Leaf shutter lenses will sync at any shutter speed, which is nice if you're working with flash/strobe systems very much (especially portraiture). They don't have the bellows of an RB67 or RZ67. They also don't focus as closely if that's important. A decent GS-1 body, with a 100mm lens, finder, and film back can be had for $500+.

I'm not a fan of 6x6 format. I know I'm in the minority here about that. I almost never print square. I prefer the proportions of 5x7, 8x10, 11x14, 16x20 images over square images when printed and framed. That's just me. If you're going to crop to a rectangle, you might as well shoot a rectangle unless you're a wedding photographer who doesn't want to rotate a large camera for portrait and landscape oriented shots. If you print a rectangle from 6x6, you're effectively throwing away the extra negative area over a 645 system. Still, that doesn't stop me from owning a few 6x6 cameras because they have other characteristics I like. TLRs are fun and I like the couple I own, but I wouldn't suggest one for someone's only MF camera.

The 645 format is the least expensive medium format to get into. There are lots of good examples. You could afford a Bronica ETR with multiple lenses, backs, and a non-metered finder for $500. I have a couple of them and they're fine systems. You can even get into autofocus 645 MF cameras, but probably not for $500.

I've suggested system cameras with interchangeable lenses, back, and finders. Those offer huge flexibility and if one part fails, it's sometimes cheaper to buy a replacement than get it repaired. Film backs in particular can wear to a point where they give uneven spacing to the film. Unless it's a rare camera, I just get another back for less than the cost of repairing the bad one.

Jojje · Sep 25, 2018

ANCS said:
I'm a little cautious about pin holes in the C330 bellows or if it is replaceable.

I was, too. That's why I bought a back up C220 to my Mamiyaflex C2 acquired 1999... No holes whatsoever so far. This year I bought a very cheapl 250mm lens (nobody wants them) with a sticky shutter easy to put right. And 55mm is plenty wide for me.

Dennis-B · Sep 25, 2018

ANCS said:
I've been reading a little about the Bronicas and if one comes along in very good condition, I might buy it.
Thanks for recommending the Mamiya C330 and 645. Seems okay, but I'm a little cautious about pin holes in the C330 bellows or if it is replaceable.

The bellows are replaceable. There's a guy in Hong Kong on eBay who sells them for around $75.

Sirius Glass · Sep 25, 2018

Jojje said:
I was, too. That's why I bought a back up C220 to my Mamiyaflex C2 acquired 1999... No holes whatsoever so far. This year I bought a very cheapl 250mm lens (nobody wants them) with a sticky shutter easy to put right. And 55mm is plenty wide for me.

The Mamiya Cxxx allows one to change lens pairs and get close up shots with the bellows. Those are advantages of the Rolleiflex TLRs which requires one to walk around with three cameras around their necks.

Which MF camera?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency