Which Medium-format?

[keithwms]

I'm a bit naive so forgive the dumb question: How do Mamiya and Bronica lenses compare to the Zeiss lenses for Hasselblads and Rolleiflexes?

Well, if you want numbers:

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/645AFD/645AFLensesChart.pdf

My decision to go with mamiyas was, however, not based on numbers, but on the personal reality of more bang for my buck and robustness to withstand the kind of nonsense that I like to do. Particularly the mamiya MF RF lenses are basically untouchable by anything else, for what I like to do. I know I'm also not the only one here who realized that the rb lenses can cover well beyond 8x8cm and as such make mighty fine LF lenses, especially for closeup work.

Incidentally, if you are into performance numbers: the Sekor C lenses are not the best/newest lenses in the rb family; you can get new KL or apo lenses for a song these days.

 

[Peter De Smidt]

A Rollei MX Automat 3.5 plus a brightened screen would be my suggestion. I tried a Kiev Super 66 system and didn't like it at all. I also have Fuji medium format range finders, a 6x7 and a 6x9. They are great cameras but probably more expensive than you'd like to spend. I don't understand AF medium format cameras.

 

[DBP]

I'm a bit naive so forgive the dumb question: How do Mamiya and Bronica lenses compare to the Zeiss lenses for Hasselblads and Rolleiflexes? Surely the quality wont be as high, but is the difference really that big? I'm sure it depends on the individual lens, too, but to generalize for a moment.

My Rollei just broke (or, rather, I just broke it) and I need a new MF, but I really want an SLR this time. I'd be willing to put up with something more cumbersome and "uncool", so long as the lenses were good.

Are the Zeiss P-mount lenses for Kiev/Pentacon very good? Kievs are pretty enourmous and awkward, but if the lenses are excellent I might go for one.

The Kiev 60s are enormous, but not really awkward. As for the 88s, they are the same size as a Hasselblad 1600 series, and fit nicely in the hand. Any MF SLR is going to be pretty heavy if you are using a prism. If you want small and light you need to go the RF or TLR rout (and not the Mamiya TLRs).

 

[vickersdc]

I had a Hartblei modified Kiev 60 far a while and it was OK - but one of the greatest things about them is the Arsat 30mm super-duper, mega wide angle lens that can go with it. The Kiev was cheap, never went wrong and, as mentioned, pretty good. As for the Mamiya, I had three (645J, 645 1000S and C330) - and the best lenses went with the C330 IMHO. The Fuji 645S I had was also pretty good, but the Bronica ETRS I have at the moment I really like.

 

[panastasia]

I stopped using it when I got my hands on a Rolleiflex with a 2.8 Zeiss Planar. It is hard to put in words why, but I tend to like German glass better.

I also preferred German glass, believing they were the best, until I started using Mamyia KL lenses on my RB. My opinion has changed. I love all my German lenses, especially my LF lenses, but some of my KL lenses give me the sharpest images I've ever produced and the background (out-of-focus) parts of some photos are more desirable with the KL's. The slightly long lenses appear to be the sharpest - especially the 180 KL - These require some filters for soft-focused portraits.

My personal opinion based on viewing/comparing my own work and equipment.

 

[Matus Kalisky]

My only experience with MF is with my Rolleiflex T (Tessar lens) which is a very fine piece of equipement. I got it for 200 euro (on the cheaper side) in perfect shape wich case. I use it for both BW and color. The lens is sharp wide open and gets VERY sharp if yout stop down fo f/8 or so. It has also very nice rendition of out-of-focus areas.
Just yesterday my new Gossen Digisix lightmeter (small and light) arrrived and is very easy to use. These two make for a nice, elegant and quiet combo. Together with tiny Manfrotto table-top tripod and cable release it can handle most of the situations.

Still - a TLR needs a bit ot getting used to, but because they are different than rangefinders or SLRs, you get quite some recongnition - pople accept you more or give you more space even in crowded places like autoshows or so. So if you can live with its limitations it is a great tool.

 

[urals]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Another question: I can't seem to really figure out what the big difference is between the Mamiya 645 Super and the 645 Pro. I notice that the former goes for significantly less than the latter.

 

[dferrie]

I got myself a Mamiya M645 and two lenses on ebay last year for less than $250 including shipping to Ireland. It may not be the latest kit but I've been very happy with the quality of the lenses etc.

One downside (depending on what you want to do) is that it does not have an interchangeable film back, it doesn't worry me as I tend to shoot the entire roll at one location/sitting.

David

 

[MattKing]

Thanks for the advice everyone!

Another question: I can't seem to really figure out what the big difference is between the Mamiya 645 Super and the 645 Pro. I notice that the former goes for significantly less than the latter.

The Super was the first version of the Mamiya 645 system that featured interchangeable backs. The Pro is newer, and the Pro Tl is newer again.

As I understand it, the biggest difference between the Super and the Pro is that some of the internal mechanisms are more robust in the newer models. In particular, when used with a power winder, I understand that the Super was more likely to show premature wear.

All the manual focus lenses will work on all manual focus bodies (including the older versions, and the 645E).

Functionally there are some very minor differences between the Super and the Pro. As a result, certain accessories (such as metering finders) will work on one, but not the other, while other accessories will work on all three. The most irritating difference I have encountered is that the link between the lefthand grip and the cameras that allows use of the shutter release and hotshoe on the grip is different for the Super and the Pro.

The Pro Tl also added TTl flash capability.

I have two Super bodies, and one Pro body, and when using them with manual wind I use them interchangeably. If I want to use the older power winder I have, I use it on the Pro. I have had no complaints about any of them.

If I were starting with them now, I'd buy a Pro or Pro Tl, because of their age .

Hope this helps.

Matt

 

[mawz]

The Super has less prism/body and winder/body communication than the Pro/ProTL. So while all prisms and winders will work on the Super, you may lose some capability, notably some information display in the newer finders and the electronic cocking with the N/L Leaf Shutter lenses and a WG401 winder. I currently shoot a Super, but am going to grab a pro and the WG401 winder when I get the chance (The WG401 winder has two major advantages over the Winder N that was made for the super. It takes standard cable releases, otherwise you need a ridiculously priced adaptor, and is far more comfortable).

 

[mikebarger]

Bang for the buck, Rapid omega 100.

Cheap 6x7 good glass.

Mike

 

[aparat]

Pentacon Six

I am going to suggest Pentacon Six. You can get a kit (body, lens, WLF) in excellent condition for about $200. This was my first medium format camera and I had good results with it. The system itself is very large, including lenses and accessories for the Soviet-made Kiev and German Exacta 66. The 180mm f/2.8 lens is outstanding for portraits.

aparat

 

[Tom Hoskinson]

One of my personal favorite MF cameras is my 2.25" X 3.25" Crown Graphic with Graflock Back. I often use Mamiya RB 6cm X 7cm rollfilm backs on this camera. My favorite fast lens is a f 2.8 Schneider Xenon in Compur shutter.

 

[fatboy22]

Are the Zeiss P-mount lenses for Kiev/Pentacon very good? Kievs are pretty enourmous and awkward, but if the lenses are excellent I might go for one.

I love my Kiev K60, P6 and Exakta 66 cameras. The Zeiss lenses that fit these cameras are excellent and very reasonable. There is a lot of people that bad mouth them because of some frame overlap issues sometimes. I would say 99% of the time there is an over lap problem it is because the film was not loaded correctly or to loosely. I also have several Bronica S2A cameras, which are just amazing! The Nikkor lenses for these cameras are very sharp! I have noticed the price going back up on some of these camera systems on Ebay.

Jamie


Jamie

 

[André E.C.]

which medium format?

Hmmmmmmm, tough one to answer, I think it depends on what are you planing to do with the unit.

I recently bought one fantastic Rolleiflex 3.5A equiped with a Tessar Opton 75mm, I fell in love with the little thing right away, before, I took my Blad to the streets, handheld was a nightmare (personnal opinion), as I wanted to keep the 6x6 negative size, but reduce the weight, I decided to buy the TLR.

Conclusion, buy the unit who suits your photographic needs, doing so, it will be much easier to make the right decision.




Cheers






André

 

[rst]

Ever thought about a Rollei SL66? For $500 you should be able to get a body with waist level finder, a 2.8/80mm Planar and a film magazine. Why the SL66? Because it already comes with a bit of tilt (8° up or down) which I find pretty handy and it has the ability to retro mount all the lenses which will make your 80mm into a 1.5:1 macro lens. That is a very flexible combo. Disadvantage: flash sync is only 1/60.

ciao
-- Ruediger

 

[Ulrich Drolshagen]

That is a very flexible combo. Disadvantage: flash sync is only 1/60

... and very large and heavy. I know, I have one. NB the flash sync is 1/30.

Ulrich

 

[rst]

... and very large and heavy. I know, I have one. NB the flash sync is 1/30.

Ups Ulrich, you are right, it is only 1/30. Large and heavy? It is larger and heavier than a blad, but if I watch people using their D-SLR with battery pack and monster 2.8/24-70 monster zoom lenses, then the SL66 is not too heavy and not too large

ciao
-- Ruediger

 

[razocaine_07]

i would definately go for a Bronica. the etrsi model is the cheaper option but i prefer the SQA model. I bought the body for £40 (about $80?) and a 6x6 back for £50 ($100) and that would leave a decent amount of change for a lens to start with.

 

[urals]

Another quick question: what things should one check for when buying a used camera? What is a good checklist of things to inspect?

I ask because I've been offered a Hasselblad kit for a suspiciously good price. The guy is either generous or the camera is defective, and it'd be really good if I could tell the difference.

 

[urals]

While we're on it, is there anything I should know about 500C's? I hear the only significant difference between it and C/M's is that you can't easily change the focusing screen.

Also, are M12 backs decent? They're a bit more tricky to load, I'm told, but what else?

I'm rushing into this but, damn, a whole kit with 150mm lens for $400 seems too good to pass up.

 

[Uncle Goose]

There are quirks to working with a TLR, but you can't beat the cost vs performance, plus chicks dig them.

That can give a whole new meaning to "best bang for the buck" Harharhar.

 

[pesphoto]

I have a nice Mamiya M645 1000s available if anyone is looking.

 

[Garry Madlung]

This forum is really the best place to start. Its the best place to learn what your choices are.

If you are already buying, good luck. Just buying a camera is the best place to start. You can always do what the rest of us do and buy more cameras.

 

[razocaine_07]

Another quick question: what things should one check for when buying a used camera? What is a good checklist of things to inspect?

I ask because I've been offered a Hasselblad kit for a suspiciously good price. The guy is either generous or the camera is defective, and it'd be really good if I could tell the difference.

i was in the same boat too, i decided to buy a weekly photgraphic mag that had alot of trusted shops that sold second hand medium format cameras for really good prices and just went from there, with places like eBay there is always a risk