Which developer is best for all around use?

[EASmithV]

For low volume, casual home processing, I have to say I still think D76 is the best, due to reusability and long shelf life (I have a bottle of stock I've been using for 2 years unreplenished)

 

[sidearm613]

A good possibility is Arista Premium liquid from Freestyle. Its actually Clayton F76+, which ain't bad, but at the price, you can't help but love it. Use that stuff for your everyday work and when you need something special you can shoot for the moon and get Tanol or something

 

[dougjgreen]

Looks like 2 Gallons of HC110 run about $16 at Henry's, not sure if it's a 2 gallon bottle or whether that's the stock solution, I would need to get something to measure the small amounts needed, then just suck out the syrup on an as needed basis. If it's 2 gallons of concentrate it would probably take 20 years to use it all.

That would be 2 gallons of stock.

 

[mcgrattan]

I tend to stick to liquid developers as that's just easier for me and I don't generally like mixing up powder developers.

Of the liquid developers I've tried, I really like the results from Ilford DD-X but it works out extremely expensive, so these days I primarily use Paterson's Aculux-3 as my general developer. I also use Rodinal and Diafine occasionally.

In the past I've used HC-110, Adox ADX and others with generally good results. Adox ADX is very good with slow to medium speed films and really economical, but not so good with fast films where the standard developing instructions tend involve developing at slower than box speed.

 

[mikebarger]

For anything under 4x5, of the three you've limited your choices to, I'd use HC110. Rodinal, for me, is just too grainy for small formats. This is a personal choice, I know many people love Rodinal in 35mm.

Mike

 

[RobertV]

It depends on the films you are using. I am normally using slow and medium speed film in 35mm (Leica) and small M.F. so 70% is < iso 200.
Rodinal is then an easy general all round developer.
If your choice is 30% slow and 70% faster films (>iso 400) I should say HC-110 is a good choice.

Both Rodinal (1+25 - 1+100) and HC-110 are very economical and easy to use. Also the life time of both developers is extremely long.

So depending on format and film use it can be different what's the best choice.

 

[Richard Jepsen]

I suggest XTOL is a the most modern, all purpose soup. One can dilute XTOL 1:1 through 1:3 using data from original charts. This allows more flexibility in the final look of the print. XTOL 1:3 is very sharp. The Film Developing Cookbook recommends XTOL with special mention of FP-4 and the new emulsions. XTOL's shelf life is longer than D-76, however, not as long as HC110/Rodinal. The use of Rodinal for medium to fast -135 formats would be a specialist soup vs general purpose. The last reason is XTOL is eco friendly.

 

[philipp.leser]

Is sudden death still a problem with XTOL? The horror stories I've heard is what keeps me from trying it...

 

[RobertV]

Is sudden death still a problem with XTOL?

That's the inconvenience of the Ascorbic Acid with regular tap-water. If you are using demi water the developer will at least work till 6 months. Due to it's 5ltr. package and the tap water problem I do not find it an all round developer like HC-110 and Rodinal.
But if you know the limitations of Xtol it can be a good developer.

 

[argentic]

Never had any problems with Xtol or any other Ascorbic Acid developer. But I always use distilled water to make my stock solution.

And even if "sudden death" should occurs, it's very easy to prevent. Just take a few minutes to test the stock solution with a piece of exposed film. If the film turns black, your developer is still going strong.

 

[wogster]

I suggest XTOL is a the most modern, all purpose soup. One can dilute XTOL 1:1 through 1:3 using data from original charts. This allows more flexibility in the final look of the print. XTOL 1:3 is very sharp. The Film Developing Cookbook recommends XTOL with special mention of FP-4 and the new emulsions. XTOL's shelf life is longer than D-76, however, not as long as HC110/Rodinal. The use of Rodinal for medium to fast -135 formats would be a specialist soup vs general purpose. The last reason is XTOL is eco friendly.

So what is the shelf life? According to Kodak J109 it's six months, I would assume that is in a full, tightly capped bottle. I think though the minimum size box I have available is 5L, and costs $10.

So a couple of questions, at 1 roll per month, six months would be six rolls, at $10 per box, that would be $1.67 per roll, a little pricey I would think. As HC110 can be used from the syrup and the syrup lasts a long time, it's the direction I am moving to.

Although Mr. Gainer is sending me some other methods of mix it yourself without needing a lot of equipment info, so I may go that direction as well.

This is the new problem for traditional B&W photography, we have gone from three media to four, and the divisions are changing. There are shooters now who shoot some digital, some colour negative, some colour slide and some B&W. Personally I shoot mostly digital, but am finding that digital to B&W conversion isn't giving me the quality I would like, so I am returning to shooting stuff I want in B&W on B&W film. I find even scanning B&W film and printing digitally is better quality then converting from digital to B&W and printing digitally. Although if you have a few negatives that you want traditionally printed, you can always rent a darkroom for printing if you don't have room to set one up.

 

[Eric Rose]

Geez no one has mentioned PyroCat-HD! I have given up on all other developers in favor or PC-HD. It's SO cheap and flexible.

 

[bdial]

It's been reported in here several times that the Xtol sudden death problem was due to bad packaging and has long ago been resolved. My personal experience is that I just finished a batch of Xtol that was mixed in September of last year, and it was fine. The last bottle of the batch wasn't full when I finished it and hadn't been for at least a couple of weeks.

Currently there are 33.5K members in Apug, which ought to be good for at least 67K opinions on what the best all around developer is.

 

[Soeren]

My vote is for Rodinal or maybe Diafine. Both are easy to use, reasonably cheap, lasts forever and gives good results. None wil work well with all films on the market but rodinal and Neopan 400 wont give you grain like golfballs and with Efke/Adox 25 youll get beautifull results. Diafin and Neopan 400 is not a good combo but else I havn't had problems using it.
Best regards

 

[2F/2F]

I'd go for HC-110 or Ilfotec HC. There is really nothing you can't do with it, and do well, and it is extremely convenient for me and seems to keep forever and be the most consistent developer, especially for minimal use (as would be any syrupy concentrate). I also expect them to be around and be unchanged for quite some time; IMO very important. The Kodak is cheaper at about $30 per liter to Ilford's $39, but I switched in order to support Ilford. (I just wish Ilford had better bottles/caps and smaller quantities like Kodak.) My times and speeds are effectively identical to HC-110...I wasted a lot of time and film testing just to figure that out.

FWIW, it works for everything, though for the rare occasions in which I use T-Max, I like to use T-Max developer, as I feel that these two truly go hand in hand.

At your volumes, I would go for HC-110 over the Ilford, as it comes in a smaller bottle with a cap that seals much better. (I decant my Ilford into amber glass bottles filled to the brim.)

 

[Ian Grant]

Geez no one has mentioned PyroCat-HD! I have given up on all other developers in favor or PC-HD. It's SO cheap and flexible.

Totally agree, it's the only developer I'm using at the moment.

Alternatives would be Rodinal and Xtol both excellent developers that I've used extensively.

Ian

 

[2F/2F]

Out of curiosity, how good is Pyrocat HD for + development?

 

[Ian Grant]

Like Rodinal the best way to increase contrast for N+2 development is alter the developer concentration. So instead of 1+1+100 I use 2+2+100, which is also how most people use it when making negatives for alternative processes.

With Rodinal I used to use 1+25 for N+2, 2+75 (1:37.5) for N-1, N, N+1 and 1:50 for N-2. So far I haven't had a situation since I began using Pyrocat 3 or 4 years ago where I've needed N-2 development.

Ian

 

[2F/2F]

Thanks. I asked because I thought pyro's strong suit was extreme compensating development, but I hear a lot of people on APUG calling it their everyday soup. I wanted to try it, but not if I could not get a decent push from it as well.

 

[Ian Grant]

Pyrocat (at 1+1+100) does have some compensating properties but these are quite different to the effects you get with D76/ID-11 and Xtol at 1+3 or Rodinal at 1+100. People do use Pyrocat for more extreme compensation by using it more dilute & stand development, in the same way that others do the same with Rodinal @ 1+200.

Ian

 

[wogster]

I'd go for HC-110 or Ilfotec HC. There is really nothing you can't do with it, and do well, and it is extremely convenient for me and seems to keep forever and be the most consistent developer, especially for minimal use (as would be any syrupy concentrate). I also expect them to be around and be unchanged for quite some time; IMO very important. The Kodak is cheaper at about $30 per liter to Ilford's $39, but I switched in order to support Ilford. (I just wish Ilford had better bottles/caps and smaller quantities like Kodak.) My times and speeds are effectively identical to HC-110...I wasted a lot of time and film testing just to figure that out.

FWIW, it works for everything, though for the rare occasions in which I use T-Max, I like to use T-Max developer, as I feel that these two truly go hand in hand.

At your volumes, I would go for HC-110 over the Ilford, as it comes in a smaller bottle with a cap that seals much better. (I decant my Ilford into amber glass bottles filled to the brim.)

Around here, a bottle of HC110 runs about $16, the Ilfotec HC is over $50, now it is unclear as to how much capacity is in each because the Kodak is 2 Gallons, based on stock solution, I assume that would be US gallons, rather then Imperial gallons. The Ilford is 1L (which I assume is the syrup). While I prefer Ilford products and have for years, I am not going to pay 3 times as much, unless the capacity is 3 times as much.

I was sent some Info by Mr. Gainer on mix it yourself using teaspoons and such, I may give it a try, someday. I will try the HC110 first, see how that goes. Rodinal is also on the list of developers to try.

 

[MattKing]

Around here, a bottle of HC110 runs about $16, the Ilfotec HC is over $50, now it is unclear as to how much capacity is in each because the Kodak is 2 Gallons, based on stock solution, I assume that would be US gallons, rather then Imperial gallons. The Ilford is 1L (which I assume is the syrup). While I prefer Ilford products and have for years, I am not going to pay 3 times as much, unless the capacity is 3 times as much.

I was sent some Info by Mr. Gainer on mix it yourself using teaspoons and such, I may give it a try, someday. I will try the HC110 first, see how that goes. Rodinal is also on the list of developers to try.

Paul:

The HC110 (for $16) makes 4 US gallons (or about 16 liters) of dilution B working solution, which is the 1/31 dilution used by most. The reference to 2 gallons is a reference to dilution A, which few use.

The Ilfotec HC makes 32 liters (or about 8 US gallons) of working solution at that same 1/31 standard dilution, so in essence it makes twice as much.

I have seen and used HC110 in 32 ounce bottles. They are more rare.

Matt (who would use HC110 anyways).

 

[removed account4]

the sudden death problems with xtol happened because of packaging of smaller
amounts and extreme dilutions they used to suggest ... that was years ago .. this is now, and
sudden death hasn't hasn't been reported in a long long time, and some say ( look up threads here )
that the sudden death stuff was just an urban legend anyways ...

 

[removed account4]

Yup. D23 does it all. Used straight with DK25R replenishment to do ca. 20 rolls of 120 per liter. 1:1 for increased "sharpness." 1:3 for contrast taming. Straight as Bath A in a divided developer. Use the DK25R replenisher as Solution A for a Beutler-like acutance developer. Add sodium carbonate solution and potassium bromide to make a soft-working paper developer similar to Ansco 120. And cheap. What's not to like?

yeah, that is what i heard.
if i wasn't so hell-bent on ansco130
and the glycin-thing, i would probably be
hell-bent on D23 ...

i also hear that it is almost impossible to have bad negatives
if you process in D23 ...

 

[2F/2F]

Yes; as I mentioned, HC-110 is cheaper per roll. I recommended the HC-110 anyhow, as it comes in smaller bottles.

A 16 oz. bottle of HC-110 syrup is diluted 1:3 to make 64 oz. (1/2 U.S. gal.) stock solution (though you do not have to mix up all the stock solution at once). For dilution B, the 64 oz. of stock solution is diluted 1:7 to make 512 oz. (4 U.S. gal.) of one-shot working solution in the end. 512 oz. = 32 batches of two rolls of 35mm each, so you get 64 rolls for your $16, or about 25 cents per roll, and 32 months worth of syrup.

The Ilford 1 L bottle has enough syrup to make 4 L of stock solution. This makes 28 L of one-shot working solution that is the equivalent of Kodak's dilution B. You will be running half-liter batches, so that is 56 batches x 2 rolls per batch = 112 rolls for your $50, or about 45 cents per roll. At the prices I know at Freestyle, the liter of syrup is only $40, so that is about 35 cents per roll, and 56 months worth of syrup.

At the prices you listed, there is a larger price difference between HC-110 and Ilfotec HC than there is here in the U.S. at Freestyle. Are you sure you are not reading the HC-110 price in U.S. dollars and the Ilfotec HC price in Canadian dollars? I don't doubt you, but I am curious.

At any rate, from a strictly monetary outlook, your frequency of use pretty well makes the price differences negligible. What I mean is that at your two roll per month rate, you will save yourself only 40 cents per month by going for the Ilford instead of the Kodak.

The good thing about both of these HC developers is that you can definitely and fairly easily make 98% use of the syrup for these 3+ year periods, unlike D-76 stock.