Which developer for b/w: ILFORD DDX or Rodinal/Adonal?

[klownshed]

Are the results much better with poweder compared to liquid?

No. but you asked about saving money. ID-11 is cheaper than DD-X.

I started with DD-X and it's a very nice developer. I mainly use ID-11 now.

 

[markbarendt]

The thing that kinda irks me about powder is the sudden death syndrome that no one can really tell why it happens and how to prevent it.

Powders are not the problem. The sudden death thing was only with Xtol and solved many, many years ago. IMO the occasional report that pops up here and there are human failures like trying to use chemicals that are well past their "use by"" date or used out of order or contaminated...

Are the results much better with poweder compared to liquid?

No. All are capable of good results.

 

[Svenedin]

+1

 

[mehguy]

Since i mostly like HP5, i`ll settle for

DDX developer
Ilfostop
Ilford Rapid Fixer

Those wetting agents, are they REALLY needed? IS the difference really so big? While we at it, which of these components could i savce money from? Could it be said that the developer is the most important think and that i could buy "cheaper" stuff to still get good results?

For film, stop bath isn't needed. You can try using Vinegar as a stop bath (dilute 1+4) or fill and dump the tank a few times with water in between the developer and fixer stage.

Things like wetting agents is highly recommended like Kodak Photo flo, which doesn't cost a lot and you will never have to buy another bottle in 50 years.

I suppose you could use distilled water as a wetting agent, works fine. But that actually ends up being more expensive than the wetting agents.

 

[MattKing]

I'm going to partially disagree with respect to stop bath. You can do without it, by replacing it with a water stop and several fills and dumps, but that will result in a less exact developing time, and may result in less life from your fixer.

If you decide to use vinegar, make sure you use pure white vinegar - flavoured vinegar won't give you a good result. You also won't get the advantage of the indicator included with most stop baths to warn of exhaustion.

The last time I priced it out, it was more expensive (on a per use basis) to use vinegar than stop bath, unless you bought really big bottles of vinegar. It would be worthwhile to update that calculation.

 

[Leigh B]

I suppose you could use distilled water as a wetting agent, works fine.

I hate to disagree, but ... I strongly disagree.

A surfactant ("wetting agent") reduces the surface tension of water so it flows rather than beading up.
This reduces the likelihood of water beads forming on the film which then dry, leaving little circles.

Water will not reduce the surface tension of water.

- Leigh

 

[Leigh B]

For film, stop bath isn't needed. You can try using Vinegar as a stop bath (dilute 1+4) or fill and dump the tank a few times with water in between the developer and fixer stage.

Stop bath is chemically the same as vinegar (both are acetic acid).
Both will stop development in a very short time.

Water baths are not a suitable substitute since they dilute the developer without stopping its action.
Consequently, development time becomes unpredictable.

Modern stop bath includes a visible indicator that tells you when it's exhausted and should be replaced.
Plain vinegar has no such indicator.

Given the low cost of indicator stop bath and its very long useful life, I see no reason to use any alternative.

- Leigh

 

[Svenedin]

Most stop baths are acetic acid but not all of them. The one I use (Fotospeed SB50) is an "odourless", indicator, stop bath that uses citric acid. The odourless feature is less important for developing film but for prints in trays it does make for a more pleasant environment in the darkroom.

I disagree with the use of plain water as a stop. It is imprecise and could lead to varying developing times and inconsistent results.

Distilled water as the last rinse can reduce drying marks caused by impure tap water. I have very hard tap water that is pumped from chalk aquifers so I use distilled water for the last rinse. Surfactants like Ilfotol help the water to flow off rather than staying stuck in beads and so the film dries faster which hopefully keeps it cleaner. Film is essentially like old fashioned fly-paper when wet -anything can stick it and dust will stick.

 

[darkroommike]

The thing that kinda irks me about powder is the sudden death syndrome that no one can really tell why it happens and how to prevent it. Are the results much better with poweder compared to liquid?

Cheaper, rather than better, and if you mix your own, much cheaper. Some developers are only available as mix your own formulas. As far as "sudden death" both stock solutions made from powders and liquid concentrates go bad, the life expectancy of HC-100 and especially Rodinal are legendary but even they will eventually go bad. Early 1 liter packages of Xtol went off quickly and with no warning color change or bad smell. And many other developers formulated with phenidone can be sneaky that way also. Best practice is to use a bit of masking tape to note the date mixed (or opened) and adhere to the developer maker's recommended shelf life.

 

[John51]

What I did was do a lot of google image searches for a film and developer, say "fp4 rodinal":

https://www.google.com/search?q="fp...a=X&ei=y_gdVcmZFdDSoASy7oC4CA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ

Doing that had a few favourites emerge. For me it was fp4 with either id11 or d23.

 

[M Carter]

All this emphasis on powder vs. liquid developer costs... if you're living in a dumpster and subsisting on change from singing old Van Morrison songs to tourists, maybe it's an issue. But a $10-$15, 500ml bottle of Rodinal will develop something like 50-100 rolls of film. My current bottle is 3 years old and still half full. I wouldn't shop developer based on cost, and unless you're developing dozens of rolls or sheets a month, the liquids are much more convenient than powders.

 

[Wallendo]

Rodinal is my go-to developer for slower films, especially Foma/Arista films. I don't like the way it looks with faster films, and if shooting HP5+ of TX400, prefer to use HC-110. If cost is a major issue, one of the many HC-110 clones could be a good option - the clones may not last as long but I have had a bottle of Freestyle's Legacy L-110 last over a year. The extended long-life of Rodinal and HC-110 is nice, but hopefully you will shoot enough film that using a single bottle over several years will not be an issue.

I learned to develop using D-76 (the same as ID-11) and loved the results, but for me, it just works out easier for me to use concentrated liquid developers.

I almost always use stop - Ilfostop is cheap and lasts a good while.

"wetting agent" is a controversial topic - there are many threads about it on APUG. My experience is that the best method of drying film varies based on the quality of water used. When I started developing, I was in a house with well-water in the coastal plain. Ilfosol per instructions worked best. I moved to a house 2 miles away on a municipal water supply, and, using the same technics as before ended up with soap spots. I found that a distilled water bath with no wetting agent worked best. I recently moved to the mountains and my house has well water and neither of the two previous technics worked, so now a use a few drops of Edwal LFN and wipe the non-emulsion side of the film with a fine dry cloth. There is no "right way."

When I started developing B&W film, I wasted 6 months sweating the details before a developed my first roll. My advice is to pick up a bottle of HC-110 or Rodinal and start developing film. There is no need to find the ideal developer, stop, fixer or wetting agent. Once you learn the basic technics, you can try different chemicals and variations. Film developing is 90% chemistry and 10% alchemy. There will be plenty of time to fix minor problems later on.

 

[Svenedin]

All this emphasis on powder vs. liquid developer costs... if you're living in a dumpster and subsisting on change from singing old Van Morrison songs to tourists, maybe it's an issue. But a $10-$15, 500ml bottle of Rodinal will develop something like 50-100 rolls of film. My current bottle is 3 years old and still half full. I wouldn't shop developer based on cost, and unless you're developing dozens of rolls or sheets a month, the liquids are much more convenient than powders.

The OP is considering DD-X as well as Rodinal.

Ilfotech DD-X is £19.50 per litre from my UK supplier. It is diluted 1+4 so 1 litre of concentrate makes 5 litres of working developer. It can be re-used but is recommended as one-shot. Assuming 300 ml per 35mm film and one-shot use, 1 litre of concentrate can develop 16 films at a cost of £1.22 per film.

ID11 on the other hand is £11.98 for a 5 litre packet. He could use that at 1+1 or 1+3. At 1+3 he would have 20 litres of working strength developer, enough for 66 x 35mm films used one-shot. That is £0.18 per film.

Despite that, I still use DD-X because I like it but if I have a big batch of films to develop (such as after a holiday) I will mix up 5 litres of powder.

 

[klownshed]

I've enjoyed trying lots of different combinations of camera, format, film, developer and developer methods.

Some of my early favourite combinations are already history. Bronica SQ-A + Efke 25 + Rodinal would be my staple if Efke still existed. I also loved Neopan 400 but Fuji decided not to let me have anymore.

These days I mostly use HP5+ in ID-11 but still like to mix it up every now and then.

It's all part of the fun.

I'm happy with most combinations, I've not really found a film I couldn't like.

But in the early days I stuck with Hp5+ and DD-X until I was confident in what I was doing.

One tip. Some people get very stressed about precision and accuracy. When you are developing for 13 minutes, down to the second accuracy really isn't important and makes no difference.

If timings were so critical, the developer manufacturers would give times to the nearest second rather than, for the most part, nearest half minute.

Consistency is important though. If you are getting sub par results you need to know where you are going wrong. Introduce too many variables and it becomes very tricky.

That's where the one film one Dev can be helpful at the start (but choose a widely available combo preferably from one of the big players like ilford or Kodak). You can work on one variable at a time until you've got it nailed. From there by all means try every film and developer you can get your hands on. Why not? How are you expected to find your own favourite combination unless you try it for yourself?

And as for advice, Is recommend looking at the photography of whoever is advising. Like their work? Great. If you don't, they may very well have a very different opinion to what makes a good photo to you. By all means and ignore everything I say if You think my photos stink! ;-)

Above all, have fun. Enjoy making mistakes and when you get it right you get a wonderful sense of achievement.

 

[RichardJack]

My two cents (coming from an old fart). I've always believed in using the film manufacturers developer recommendation. That meant a Kodak developer for Kodak film, an Ilford developer for Ilford film and so on.
I use D76 for Tri-X, TMAX developer for TMAX films, Ilford DDX for Ilford films and Rodinal for anything I want slightly higher contrast with (at the expense of coarser grain).
Experiment, that is the fun of darkroom photography.
Rick

 

[obviouslygene]

I'm pretty new to self developing, been experimenting with D76 and now TMAX RS.
I mainly shoot Tri X or Fomapan, pretty good results with both.
One thing I found out was that if you shoot Tri X, and get a purplish tint on your negs, try using hypo clearing agent.
I found that, HCA works for me. It's either that or I have to rinse for at least an hour.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

DDX is one of two best developers for Delta 400. Xtol the other.

DDX does not have consumer readable date codes. No way to tell how long it was on the shelf. Does not discolor. I moved to Kodak TMax400 which works beautifully in D76 as did original versions of Delta 400.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

I'm pretty new to self developing, been experimenting with D76 and now TMAX RS.
I mainly shoot Tri X or Fomapan, pretty good results with both.
One thing I found out was that if you shoot Tri X, and get a purplish tint on your negs, try using hypo clearing agent.
I found that, HCA works for me. It's either that or I have to rinse for at least an hour.

Fresh fix is the solution. Pink dye in TMax 100 is same.

 

[obviouslygene]

Fresh fix is the solution. Pink dye in TMax 100 is same.

Strangely fresh fix doesn't work for me. Only HCA and rinsing for nearly an hour with constant water flowing through.
Why does it vary among people?
I have read up on this on various forums and the suggestions were to 1) use fresh fix. 2) fix for longer. 3) use HCA. 4) rinse for longer.

 

[Agulliver]

I would actually recommend starting with ID-11 or D76 (same thing). My thinking is that you can get good results with *any* film in ID-11. You can find it in shops still, and with pretty much any online retailer who deals in darkroom chemicals (unless they specialise in esoteric stuff). You can find processing times for almost any film you may come across for ID-11....and if you can't make it work after one or two attempts....the hobby isn't for you. It's almost impossible to stuff things up with ID-11 or D76. It has reasonable shelf life once the powder is dissolved you should be able to keep it for 5-6 months or develop at least 13 35mm films.

Once you've discovered that you can successfully develop films...it is worth exploring some other chemicals and films if you like. I'm having a blast keeping to ID-11 but trying various different films that are now on the market...or which have been nestling in my freezer for a decade. You might decide you want a developer with a longer shelf life, in which case some of the recommendations mentioned here would work well for you. I find the amount of film I shoot works well with the properties of ID-11, your mileage may vary if you shoot considerably less or more than I do.

As for stop baths...I was taught in school to use one but never have at home. It doesn't seem to make any difference in my personal experience. I do use a wetting agent, helps the film dry evenly and without any streaks. Otherwise my results are inconsistent...one film might be perfect while another will have drying streaks.

I would echo what a couple of people have said about not stressing over timings or temperatures too much. You can lose or gain 15-30 seconds and it really makes no perceptible difference as long as your development time is at least 5 minutes. Not sure what film it was but I remember developing something that only took 3:30 minutes and I was pretty careful with that. But most films are going to be in the region of six to ten minutes in the developer. If your room is 18 degrees C it probably won't make much difference compared to 20C either...though the chemicals will certainly work faster with higher temperature.