Which comes first...the shutter speed or the shutter cocking?

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

With board mounted lenses, should the shutter speed be set before the lens is cocked? If so, does this apply to all lens makes or perhaps to some and not to to to others? Also, does it apply to aperture settings (although I doubt it).

I mention it because I was told that setting the SS after cocking the shutter for firing could damage the lens.

Nige · Oct 1, 2020

Set shutter speed, cock shutter, fire, cock shutter, take picture.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

Nige said:
Set shutter speed, cock shutter, fire, cock shutter, take picture.

Yes, but does setting the shutter speed after cocking the shutter damage the mechanism?

juan · Oct 1, 2020

Some shutter instructions I’ve read say changing speeds after cocking will damage the shutter. Others don’t mention it. Some shutters automatically cock so speed changes come after cocking. Out of caution, I always change speeds on large format lenses before cocking.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

juan said:
Some shutter instructions I’ve read say changing speeds after cocking will damage the shutter. Others don’t mention it. Some shutters automatically cock so speed changes come after cocking. Out of caution, I always change speeds on large format lenses before cocking.

Thanks for that. The manual mentions closing the focus lever before firing the shutter to avoid damage, but nothing about adjusting the speeds first.

Nige · Oct 1, 2020

Stephen Power said:
Yes, but does setting the shutter speed after cocking the shutter damage the mechanism?

Not on my lenses in that I've done it many times (but generally fire the shutter and re-cock anyway)

It's more about hoping the shutter fires at it's set speed.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

Nige said:
Not on my lenses in that I've done it many times (but generally fire the shutter and re-cock anyway) It's more about hoping the shutter fires at it's set speed.

Thanks again. I haven't timed my shutter but they sound OK (based on 40 years experience and bad hearing!)

Ian Grant · Oct 1, 2020

Nige said:
Not on my lenses in that I've done it many times (but generally fire the shutter and re-cock anyway)

It's more about hoping the shutter fires at it's set speed.

It definitely can damage some shutters but it's not usually an issue with Compurs and Copals. after all it's common on TLRs to change shutter speeds after the film is wound on and the shutter cocked.

Ian

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 1, 2020

What happens if a last second meter reading requires a change to shutter speed and you;ve already removed the dark slide and cocked the shutter? You mean changing it from let's say 1/4 to 1/8 of a second will damage a Copal 0? I'm a new 4x5 shooter and I think I've done that a few times already.

bernard_L · Oct 1, 2020

Concur with reply just posted by guangong. Compur or Pronto shutter and similar between-lens shutters: Only the highest speed (generally 1/250, 1/300 or 1/500) needs to be set before cocking, because it involves a special, stiff spring. For the other speeds, changing speeds involves no stress on moving parts. Soviet cameras with curtain shutters (Fed, Zorki) are a different question.

BradS · Oct 1, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
What happens if a last second meter reading requires a change to shutter speed and you;ve already removed the dark slide and cocked the shutter? You mean changing it from let's say 1/4 to 1/8 of a second will damage a Copal 0? I'm a new 4x5 shooter and I think I've done that a few times already.

No. Modern shutters do not care. You can change the shutter speed before or after cocking the shutter.

Bob S · Oct 1, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
What happens if a last second meter reading requires a change to shutter speed and you;ve already removed the dark slide and cocked the shutter? You mean changing it from let's say 1/4 to 1/8 of a second will damage a Copal 0? I'm a new 4x5 shooter and I think I've done that a few times already.

No problem with modern Copal and Compur and Prontor Professional shutters. Change speeds whenever you want. Since the Prontor Professional is self cocking the answer for that shutter is obvious.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.

Alan Edward Klein · Oct 1, 2020

Bob S said:
No problem with modern Copal and Compur and Prontor Professional shutters. Change speeds whenever you want. Since the Prontor Professional is self cocking the answer for that shutter is obvious.

Bob, What are considered modern Copal 0 shutters? I have 30 year old lenses for my 4x5. Schneider, Nikkor, Fujinon.

BradS · Oct 1, 2020

Alan Edward Klein said:
Bob, What are considered modern Copal 0 shutters? I have 30 year old lenses for my 4x5. Schneider, Nikkor, Fujinon.

Thirty year old Copal...no problem.
1990 was thirty years ago. Your shutters probably have black shutter speed dials...if so, they are definitely considered modern.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

BradS said:
1990 was thirty years ago.

That's very scary. I bought my first serious camera in 1976.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

BradS said:
Thirty year old Copal...no problem.

@BradS Any thoughts on a 1965 Seiko? Would that need gentle treatment?

BradS · Oct 1, 2020

Stephen Power said:
@BradS Any thoughts on a 1965 Seiko? Would that need gentle treatment?

No idea. I've never owned a Seiko LF shutter. I do know that the Compur shutters I've had, even those dating back to the 1950's don't seem to care.

Of course, you can always put the darkslide back in the film holder and release the shutter...

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

BradS said:
Of course, you can always put the darkslide back in the film holder and release the shutter...

Thanks. In the few weeks that I've had the horseman, my problem is remembering to take the dark slide out, rather than put it back in.

BradS · Oct 1, 2020

Large format affords us so many ways to screw up. I have a habit of pulling the darkslide while the shutter is still wide open for preview. I came up with the following procedure to help me reduce the number of my own screw-ups....
here's what I do when the LF camera is on a tripod.

open aperture and move preview lever to preview position (some old shutters want to be cocked to open the preview)
compose and focus
move the preview lever to closed
figure out exposure and camera settings
set aperture and shutter speed
insert the film holder but do not pull the darkslide - yet.
cock and fire the shutter three times - this is key!
cock the shutter and verify that aperture and shutter speed are set.
pull the darkslide
make the exposure and replace the dark slide.

Stephen Power · Oct 1, 2020

BradS said:
. I have a habit of pulling the darkslide while the shutter is still wide open for preview.

I have several t-shirts with that on. Thanks for the list. I'm going to print it out and put it in my camera bag.

Vaughn · Oct 1, 2020

Most of my exposures tend to be on B or T, but I still give them a test run before pulling the darkslide. This also makes sure I have not damaged the cable release recently...and sets in my brain which of the two I am using.

Bob S · Oct 1, 2020

BradS said:
Large format affords us so many ways to screw up. I have a habit of pulling the darkslide while the shutter is still wide open for preview. I came up with the following procedure to help me reduce the number of my own screw-ups....
here's what I do when the LF camera is on a tripod.

open aperture and move preview lever to preview position (some old shutters want to be cocked to open the preview)

compose and focus

move the preview lever to closed

figure out exposure and camera settings

set aperture and shutter speed

insert the film holder but do not pull the darkslide - yet.

cock and fire the shutter three times - this is key!

cock the shutter and verify that aperture and shutter speed are set.

pull the darkslide

make the exposure and replace the dark slide.

Unless you have a Compur 00.

wiltw · Oct 1, 2020

This appears to address the topic

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/changing-speeeds-on-cocked-shutter.107522/

But before I read that, I subscribed to Bob S. belief that with modern shutters it did not matter. All my lenses purchased new from around 1990, so no doubt about the newness of shutter design. (Mr. Solomon, is that you?!...If so, fond regards for all your past wisdom.}

Maybe now also need to debate the wisdom of leaving shutters cocked vs. fired, for long term storage.

Vaughn · Oct 1, 2020

The greater wisdom on that would be to use the dang things more. I don't which are falling out of spec faster...my various body parts or my shutters.

Which comes first...the shutter speed or the shutter cocking?

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