Which chrome film?

[Ed_Davor]

roteque, but Velvia 100 exaggerates colors just like the old 50, doesn't it?

 

[roteague]

roteque, but Velvia 100 exaggerates colors just like the old 50, doesn't it?

Velvia is more saturated than other film, the 100 almost as much as the old 50. That is why I also suggested the Provia - it is a great film, very sharp, not as saturated. If you are looking for nuance of color, you aren't going to get it in a film like Astia. I think you will find that nuance of color and saturation go hand in hand - there is a reason that the majority of landscape photographers choose Velvia, and it is not just a liking for saturated color. I have never found any film that gives me the subtle color distinctions that I get from Velvia.

 

[SteveH]

I just got my Provia 100F back from the lab (second round of shots). The colors/saturation look very natural, and I cannot stress how sharp this film is.
From my dealings with velvia, it is a 'saturated' kind of thing. Good for flowers, etc.
My rule of thumb is like this: where would I kodak NC film vs VC ?

 

[agGNOME]

Robert is certainly right about the characteristics of Astia. This is why I quickly abandoned Astia in favor of Provia. My objectives were/are accurate color with realistic saturation; Astia basically has none. Velvia is too saturated for my needs. I can see how Astia would not necessarily be the typical landscape film, but reading the original post I got the impression your priority was color accuracy over saturation.
I think the suggestion of Provia is sound advice, or at least the best place to start based on your goals. I noticed some provia additions to the galleries...have a look.


SteveH mentioned how sharp Provia is....very true.

 

[Ed_Davor]

Well you people say saturation comes with color nuances, well, how do you capture every nuance of color right, if the film distorts the actual colors?

 

[Dave Parker]

Saturation is not distortion, at least not in my opinion, Ed, your going to have to pick up a few of the different types of film and try them for yourself, that is the only way to see which one gives you the nuance and color your looking for, there is no other way to pin it down without testing, anybody here can only give you a biased opinion based on what they like, with the exception of Astia, I think most of the films mentioned will work very good, depending on the effect your trying to achive.

 

[Ed_Davor]

Well say you have a certain mixture of light reflected from a certain flower. It has 20% green 30% blue and 50% red in it.
So how do you saturate it more? By cutting down the minor components (green and blue) which are actuall desaturating it, and boosing the primary component.
What you get is a flower more saturated on film that it was in nature. It no longer transmits 20% blue and 30% green on a lightbox, but transmits maybe 80% red.

It is distortion because what your eyes see on a lightbox is not the same color intensity your eyes saw on the scene.
It's all measurable really, if you get the same mixture of frequencies comming through the chrome as you measured reflected from the flower, your film is accurate.
Velvia 50 does not give realistic colors, it distorts them, that's why skintones are not good with it.

 

[Dave Parker]

Velvia does exactly what it was designed for, velvia is a saturated film that was designed for publication in magazines, if your going to just look at it on the light box, it will not distort, but will be more saturated in certain insatances than the scene actually was, but it does what it was designed for and that is the publication industry that requires the extra saturation in order to portrey colors correctly on the printed page, Kodachrome was very good for this, if you want a more neutral film as others have suggested, Provia is going to be your best bet, slight saturation and very accurate color rendition, velvia very saturated and very biased to the green spectram, Astia, balanced for the skin tones and smooth tones with little grain, Sensia, also very neutral and balanced for accurate color reproduction in all types of shooting.

Saturation and balance for certain types of shooting is not what I would consider distortion..and actually I have used Velvia 50 in certain situations that render skin tones quite good, especially in a warm sidelight in the evening, can be a very good film for shooting people.

 

[roteague]

Rather than dismiss any film out of hand, get a few rolls of each of the films and try them, that is the only way you are truly going to find out what works for your situation. If you want to know how a particular film handles the spectural response, you probably need to ask PE, but for me, I prefer to look at the results and judge from that.

I have photographed people using the old Velvia 50, and like Roxi331 says, it can be done under certain situations. The new Velvia 100 doesn't suffer from the same limitations as the old 50 - the colors are much more accurate, while still giving the desired saturation levels.

 

[Ed_Davor]

it will not distort, but will be more saturated in certain insatances than the scene actually was

now that has to be the longest oxymoron I have ever read..

"distortion" : " A statement that twists fact; a misrepresentation." from dictionary.com

"Fact" is the exact combination of wavelengths in this case,
misrepresentation is any kind of bias from that combination

Every film distorts colors, It's just a matter of how much

 

[roteague]

Fine art photography is about art, not science.

 

[Ed_Davor]

Fine art photography is about art, not science.

Yea, but science is the part when photographers discuss color reproduction of films. We began this discussion around the word "accurate" such a word is a scientific word and has little meaning in art. Therefore we began discussing science.

 

[roteague]

Film, by its very nature will never be "scientifically" accurate.

 

[Dave Parker]

Ed,

Your overthinking the subject, after over 25 years of shooting for a living, I find photography far more art than science, pick up a few rolls shoot them, develop them and decide for yourself what works for you. Everybody has a different sense for color reproduction, and I have never seen two people be the same, it is just one of those things you got to figure out for yourself, there has been real good suggestions given in this thread based on opinions, if you want to nail it down scientifically, that is something your going to have to do yourself, cause no one can tell you for sure...after all of these years of shooting kodachrome and Velvia 50, I don't know that I can be scientific, as I look at every scene based on the film I intend to shoot it with.

Sorry, I couldn't be more help.

 

[Ed_Davor]

Film, by its very nature will never be "scientifically" accurate.

well that's my point, yet some here are saying films are not distorting light as it comes through the lens

 

[Ed_Davor]

Ed,

Your overthinking the subject, after over 25 years of shooting for a living, I find photography far more art than science, pick up a few rolls shoot them, develop them and decide for yourself what works for you. Everybody has a different sense for color reproduction, and I have never seen two people be the same, it is just one of those things you got to figure out for yourself, there has been real good suggestions given in this thread based on opinions, if you want to nail it down scientifically, that is something your going to have to do yourself, cause no one can tell you for sure...after all of these years of shooting kodachrome and Velvia 50, I don't know that I can be scientific, as I look at every scene based on the film I intend to shoot it with.

Sorry, I couldn't be more help.

no problem..

we are just discussing here, nothing more

I've made up my choice yesterday after a few posts.
I'll probably buy a few rolls of Velvia 100 and a few rolls of Astia and see what I get.
I'll use Velvia for duller subjects where I want more color than I actually see, and I'll use Astia where there is more than enough color in the scene already.

 

[Dave Parker]

If a film is doing what it is designed to do and is reacting as the designers made it for, that would not be considered distortion, if it reactes correctly for the type of work, then its not distortion, film is designed for particular shooting situations, there is no base to work from, but a specific type of effect..as light has a larger spectrum that the human eye can distiquish, it may be defined as distortion because it looks differently that what our eye can see in nature, but if it is working with the part of the spectrum it was designed for, then it is not distortion, just optimized..

As a good example IR film is optimized for a different spectrum than the human eye can see, but I would still not consider it distortion, just sensitive to something I can't see.

 

[Ed_Davor]

Ok, nevermind, this is turning into poetry of words...

thank you all for your advices, you've helped me to get some perspective on the new films that I haven't tested yet.

 

[Dave Parker]

Poetry of words fits Ed, I feel that photography is a poetry of light, so were pretty close to the same thinking.

 

[Ed_Davor]

d you also use poetry when talking about tripods or slide mounts?

 

[Dave Parker]

Depends on the circumstances and in what context we are discussing

 

[naturephoto1]

Let us not forget that lenses will also, but to a lesser extent affect the color recorded on film. Some lenses and lens lines tend to be more neutral while others tend to be warmer as an example.

Rich