Which Canon FD mount SLR to test first?

[frank]

The AE-1 was the first camera with digitized controls.

Maybe THAT explains why I don't like it!

 

[Paul Howell]

People forget the impact Canon A-series cameras had on 35mm photography back in the 1970's and 1980's. The AE-1 was a revolutionary camera, not so much for its features, but for it's assembly techniques. Having a mini-computer control the timing of the shutter/mirror/aperture stop-down mechanisms, allowed Canon to eliminate about 1/3rd of production costs from a camera. Before the AE-1, these functions were all done mechanically, which necessitated a lot of hand adjustments (expensive!).

Actually, Canon just beat everybody to the punch. If they hadn't introduced the A-series high-tech materials/assembly techniques in 1976, somebody else would have done so a few year later. The fact is that the cost of labor in Japan rose by about 35% over a few years in the mid-1970's, making the old-fashioned way of assembling camera just too expensive. Canon just got there first.

All this being said, I, personally, don't like the A-series cameras. Too plasticky for my tastes. I much prefer my old F-1 and FP.

Jim B.

Which is why Miranda, Petri, Kowa and Topcon are no longer with us.

 

[frank]

Like I said, I'm a Nikon guy, but I do like my Canon FTb, EF, and F1n.

 

[benjiboy]

Like I said, I'm a Nikon guy, but I do like my Canon FTb, EF, and F1n.

I like my EF too it's a much better camera than any of the A series ones, and the vertical running Copal Square shutter is made out of pure Platinum, but it was much more expensive, almost as much as the F1 when they were both current.

 

[AgX]

...and the vertical running Copal Square shutter is made out of pure Platinum,...

Very unlikely for several reasons: softness, spec density, price etc.

 

[frank]

Titanium?

 

[Mackinaw]

Which is why Miranda, Petri, Kowa and Topcon are no longer with us.

Asahi (Pentax) came very close to being added to that list. For that matter, if Canon hadn’t gambled, and won, with the A-series, they may have folded too (or at least dropped their camera division and just kept making office equipment).

Jim B.

 

[benjiboy]

Asahi (Pentax) came very close to being added to that list. For that matter, if Canon hadn’t gambled, and won, with the A-series, they may have folded too (or at least dropped their camera division and just kept making office equipment).

Jim B.

Pentax now belongs to the Ricoh corporation.

 

[benjiboy]

Very unlikely for several reasons: softness, spec density, price etc.

I do know what I'm talking about AgX I used to sell these cameras for a living at a leading professional dealers, and because they had a better Silicon Blue exposure meter and shutter priority AE, and metered exposures up to 30 seconds neither of which their Cds cell metered original F1's had many pro. customers bought them as a backup.

[QUOTE02-2011
tocopixel
Has 30+ years of SLR/camera experience.
Features 10.0 10
Build 10.0
The EF was built as an electronic version of Canon's top-of-the line F-1 camera
None for it's time.
Similar to the T-90 (1986), it set the benchmark - but was a commercial failure, lasting only a year or so on the market. The Canon EF contained a silicon photocell light meter with a range of EV 18 to EV -2 which measured light in a "central emphasis metering" pattern (also called center weighted average metering) with a bias against the top of the frame, to minimize underexposure due to a bright skyline. The Canon EF could operate "Variable Aperture AE" mode (commonly called shutter priority) or full manual mode, where the operator would control both the shutter speed and the aperture.

Why so costly? The EF used a unique Platinum shutter among Canon's 35mm SLRs; a Copal Square vertical-travel metal blade focal plane shutter. Unusually, long exposures (from 1 second to 30 seconds) were electronically controlled, while shorter ones (1/1000 second to 1/2 second) were mechanically controlled. This was very useful in conserving battery power, and allowed one to use the camera even with dead batteries. The metering system could also be turned off, e.g. when using flash, or at night, to preserve battery life.

Powering the electro-mechanical shutter and light meter were two PX 625 1.35 volt mercury batteries. Because the EF contains a unique voltage control system, common 1.5 volt alkaline batteries can be used in lieu of the now-unavailable mercury ones. The EF is the only camera in the manual focus Canon line of the 1960s and 1970s (which includes the FTb, the F-1, and the FT) that can be used with common 1.5 volt batteries without modification to the internal electronics. Like all pre-1987 Canon SLR's, the EF accepted Canon FD mount lenses. The shutter speed range was 1/1000th of a second to 30 seconds (in a beautifully pedantic touch, the 15 & 30 second settings actually give 16 and 32 seconds, thus preserving the doubling sequence), plus bulb. The X-sync was 1/125th of a second. The camera included setting for film speeds of 12 ASA to 3200 ASA.

The EF also featured a mirror-locking self-timer and a stop-down metering mode which could also be used for depth-of-field preview. The mirror can also be locked up independently of the self-timer for long exposures when the self-timer is not desired.

 

[benjiboy]

Titanium?

No Frank, only the F1 shutters were Titanium foil.

 

[frank]

Time to put a roll of film into my EF!

http://www.fdreview.com/camera-review.php?itemid=4

 

[Mackinaw]

No Frank, only the F1 shutters were Titanium foil.

I was looking at some old 1965-era magazine ads for the Pellix a few weeks back and it stated that the camera used titanium shutter curtains. This surprised me too, if it's right.

Jim B.

 

[benjiboy]

I was looking at some old 1965-era magazine ads for the Pellix a few weeks back and it stated that the camera used titanium shutter curtains. This surprised me too, if it's right.

Jim B.

No Jim the shutter was cloth, probably rubberized silk as most cloth ones are.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/pellix/index1.htm

 

[Mackinaw]

No Jim the shutter was cloth, probably rubberized silk as most cloth ones are.......

The MIR site contains a lot of inaccuracies. Take a look at the Canon Museum site for more info.

Outside of that, I can tell you that the shutter is most definitely metal. I own two Pellix cameras (one black, one chrome) and can vouch that it's not cloth. I always thought it was stainless steel, like what was used on Canon rangefinder cameras, but am now starting to think that it is titanium.

Jim B.

 

[thundertwin72]

No Jim the shutter was cloth, probably rubberized silk as most cloth ones are.
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/pellix/index1.htm

The MIR site contains a lot of inaccuracies. Take a look at the Canon Museum site for more info.

Outside of that, I can tell you that the shutter is most definitely metal. I own two Pellix cameras (one black, one chrome) and can vouch that it's not cloth. I always thought it was stainless steel, like what was used on Canon rangefinder cameras, but am now starting to think that it is titanium.

Jim B.

I think both are right:

Canon Pellix = Metal shutter curtains.

Canon Pellix QL = Cloth shutter curtains.

I thought the metal shutters are vertical travel ... is it possible to have horizontal travel?

I do know what I'm talking about AgX I used to sell these cameras for a living at a leading professional dealers, and because they had a better Silicon Blue exposure meter and shutter priority AE, and metered exposures up to 30 seconds neither of which their Cds cell metered original F1's had many pro. customers bought them as a backup.

[QUOTE02-2011
tocopixel
Has 30+ years of SLR/camera experience.
Features 10.0 10
Build 10.0
The EF was built as an electronic version of Canon's top-of-the line F-1 camera
None for it's time.
Similar to the T-90 (1986), it set the benchmark - but was a commercial failure, lasting only a year or so on the market. The Canon EF contained a silicon photocell light meter with a range of EV 18 to EV -2 which measured light in a "central emphasis metering" pattern (also called center weighted average metering) with a bias against the top of the frame, to minimize underexposure due to a bright skyline. The Canon EF could operate "Variable Aperture AE" mode (commonly called shutter priority) or full manual mode, where the operator would control both the shutter speed and the aperture.

Why so costly? The EF used a unique Platinum shutter among Canon's 35mm SLRs; a Copal Square vertical-travel metal blade focal plane shutter. Unusually, long exposures (from 1 second to 30 seconds) were electronically controlled, while shorter ones (1/1000 second to 1/2 second) were mechanically controlled. This was very useful in conserving battery power, and allowed one to use the camera even with dead batteries. The metering system could also be turned off, e.g. when using flash, or at night, to preserve battery life.

Powering the electro-mechanical shutter and light meter were two PX 625 1.35 volt mercury batteries. Because the EF contains a unique voltage control system, common 1.5 volt alkaline batteries can be used in lieu of the now-unavailable mercury ones. The EF is the only camera in the manual focus Canon line of the 1960s and 1970s (which includes the FTb, the F-1, and the FT) that can be used with common 1.5 volt batteries without modification to the internal electronics. Like all pre-1987 Canon SLR's, the EF accepted Canon FD mount lenses. The shutter speed range was 1/1000th of a second to 30 seconds (in a beautifully pedantic touch, the 15 & 30 second settings actually give 16 and 32 seconds, thus preserving the doubling sequence), plus bulb. The X-sync was 1/125th of a second. The camera included setting for film speeds of 12 ASA to 3200 ASA.

The EF also featured a mirror-locking self-timer and a stop-down metering mode which could also be used for depth-of-field preview. The mirror can also be locked up independently of the self-timer for long exposures when the self-timer is not desired.

Another feature of the Canon EF, and many people do not know, is that advances the film to the first frame, without having to fire the shutter. I know of no other camera has this feature.

Regards.

 

[benjiboy]

I've had an EF for a long time and I know that, I used to sell them at a pro. dealers but couldn't afford to buy one because I had a young family at the time. Canon used to advertise the EF as "being particularly suitable for old people" and ironically I had to wait until I was old to get one.

 

[AgX]

I thought the metal shutters are vertical travel ... is it possible to have horizontal travel?

In 35mm cameras curtain-shutters run horizontally, whether they are from cloth ot metal foil. Blade-shutters run vertically.

 

[Mackinaw]

I think both are right:

Canon Pellix = Metal shutter curtains.

Canon Pellix QL = Cloth shutter curtains.......

Well, I guess the Canon Museum is full of inaccuracies too. I have a black Canon Pellix QL and a chrome Pellix (non-QL). Both use metal curtains. They used metal shutter curtains for the same reason they used metal shutter curtains in later Canon rangefinders, to eliminate the risk of pinholes. Since the pellicle mirror allows light to pass through it to the film as well as up through the viewfinder, if you point the lens toward the sun (not uncommon), you would burn a hole in the curtain if it was cloth. The only question now is if they used stainless steel or titanium as the curtain material. I always thought it was stainless steel. Now I’m not so sure.

Jim B.

 

[thundertwin72]

In 35mm cameras curtain-shutters run horizontally, whether they are from cloth ot metal foil. Blade-shutters run vertically.

This is what It was my understanding. I did question because of this:

Canon Camera Museum, Canon Pellix, Specifications:

"Shutter: Two-axis, horizontal-travel focal-plane shutter with metal curtains. X, (T), 1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/15, 1/30, 1/60, 1/125, 1/250, 1/500, and 1/1000 sec. Self-timer lever also functions as the stop-down lever for metering".

Well, I guess the Canon Museum is full of inaccuracies too.

It appears that it is.

They used metal shutter curtains for the same reason they used metal shutter curtains in later Canon rangefinders, to eliminate the risk of pinholes. Since the pellicle mirror allows light to pass through it to the film as well as up through the viewfinder, if you point the lens toward the sun (not uncommon), you would burn a hole in the curtain if it was cloth.

A most logical argument, thanks for exposing.

 

[miha]

Platinum shutter? Is there a reliable source for that?

 

[AgX]

thundertwin72:

As I said: In 35mm cameras curtain-shutters run horizontally, whether they are from cloth ot metal foil. Blade-shutters run vertically.

This is not contrary to that Canon statement, Two-axis, horizontal-travel focal-plane shutter with metal curtains.

Most probably you mixed up curtains with blades. Instead of blades one could also say slat.

 

[benjiboy]

In 35mm cameras curtain-shutters run horizontally, whether they are from cloth ot metal foil. Blade-shutters run vertically.

True, the Canon F1 and Nikon F2 have Titanium shutters that run horizontally.

 

[Yeeski]

"... the [Canon EF's] vertical running Copal Square shutter is made out of pure Platinum ..."

Well, if it is, it must be made from a very rare isotope of platinum that's magnetic. Also, the Pellix and Pellix QL have shutter curtains made from rubberized stainless steel similar to those used in Canon rangefinders. Canon never used cloth curtains in either Pellix.

 

[fstop]

Going back to the question of the AE-1 Program base plate is definitely injection molded plastic with out drilling or anything else, you can see mold marks and knock pin marks are quite obvious.Stamped brass is smooth inside.,not this thing.
I'm going to acquire a AE-1 and a A-1.
and check them too.

 

[AgX]

Very strange indeed. As said my AE-1's definitely got stamped brass bottom plates.