Which C-41 1L kit for a beginner?

[Bormental]

I want to develop my first few rolls of color film at home. With COVID-19 affecting supply chain, and shipping restrictions on chemicals, I only found these two kits I can actually order:

• Arista C-41
• Ultrafine Unicolor C-41

Are these any good? Which one would you go with? I am in Bay Area, is there's anyone else with better 1L chemistry who can ship here?

 

[MattKing]

You my wish to request a thread title change from the moderators, as C-41 starter is actually a chemical.
Something like "USA available kits for C-41 development?".
To request a thread title change report your own post, and include the request in the note.
Good luck in your search. I'll be interested to see the results.

 

[Bormental]

I had no idea, thank you Matt. I've updated the title.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I get 12 to 16 rolls with the Unicolor 1 liter kit. I have been using it for years.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I've used the Cinestill Cs-41 kit with good results (so far for only a single roll of long-expired Superia Xtra 400; darkroom construction doesn't lend well to actual darkroom work). I'm looking forward to the results with in-date film, should be even better.

Kiev 4M, Jupiter 8 50/2, Superia Xtra 400, f/2 @ 1/25, Cinestill Cs-41

BTW, not currently in stock on their web site, but Cinestill offers theirs in a powder version that's a dollar less, and faster and cheaper to ship. Probably best for backup or second kit, as the powder doesn't include the Final Rinse, which I'm told is important for C-41 negative longevity despite no longer including a formalin stabilizer. Final rinse should keep well, though, so once you have it, you can use the powder kit for a couple cycles. If you choose, it's apparently possible (though outside Cinestill's instructions) to mix the Blix components as separate bleach and fixer, which could save money by extending the life of both (makes no difference unless you have a source of C-41 Color Developer, however). Separating those also lets you experiment with bleach bypass (aka silver retention) process, which has a distinctive look from standard C-41.

 

[Jim Blodgett]

I have been using the 1 liter Unicolor kit for a couple years now (maybe 4 batches? 50 rolls or so?) and I like it just fine. I usually get it from The Film Photography Project store but a couple months ago I was at The Shot On Film Store in Seattle they had it on the shelf, too. If you get in a pinch, I am pretty sure they ship.

 

[Karl Ramberg]

If you choose, it's apparently possible (though outside Cinestill's instructions) to mix the Blix components as separate bleach and fixer, which could save money by extending the life of both.

Have you found an explanation of how to do this online? I've heard people say separate bleach and fixer can give better sharpness and lower contrast. The only other kits I've found with these seperate are for 5L or more - I don't shoot that much. Thoughts?

 

[Bormental]

Karl, 5L isn't bad (for me). Which kits did you find that have bleach & fixer separate? Thanks.

 

[Karl Ramberg]

Karl, 5L isn't bad (for me). Which kits did you find that have bleach & fixer separate? Thanks.

I haven't found a 1L kit with a seperate bleach and fixer online. This size would be best for me because I shoot about that amount in 6 months.

 

[koraks]

I've heard people say separate bleach and fixer can give better sharpness and lower contrast

I doubt that, but maybe. All I know is that several people on here have good experiences with blixes and that they don't see any difference with separate bleach and fix. I prefer separate, but if I had a kit that came with blix, I wouldn't lose any sleep over using it that way.

My biggest qualm with these kits is that they're relatively costly on a per liter basis, which can seduce one to use it for too long/too many films. I personally prefer minilab chemistry for that reason, which I use one shot (the developer at least). But it's not attractive for everyone to deal with 10 or more liters of working solution and having to store that amount.

 

[Bormental]

Well... I've seen definite improvement in quality after I moved my B/W processing from a lab to my own hands, plus I no longer see any dust on my negatives. Based on what I'm reading, I doubt I will see similar improvement with C-41 because it's so standartized...

 

[Donald Qualls]

Have you found an explanation of how to do this online? I've heard people say separate bleach and fixer can give better sharpness and lower contrast. The only other kits I've found with these seperate are for 5L or more - I don't shoot that much. Thoughts?

I don't know of any reason the bleach/fix process should affect sharpness; that's usually a developer thing, and there are pretty stringent limits on the variations you can pull in C-41 color developer and still get correct color relationships. The main benefit of separate bleach and fix is that bleach likes oxygen and fixer doesn't -- if they're mixed, they're slowly destroying each other; if they're not, they'll last longer and the two processes can have their times tailored for best results. As I recall for the Cinestill, the liquid version has three bottles for the blix -- one is dark, and contains the bleach, the other two are clear. One of those is fixer concentrate, I don't recall what the other (smaller) bottle had -- but the gist of the trick seems to be diluting the bleach component to the correct strength and getting its pH correct, then doing the same for the fixer component. I didn't bother trying to separate them when I mixed mine, as it's my first time from a kit (last time I did color, I mixed the color dev from chemicals using the Dignan 2-bath formula, and used Flexicolor bleach and fixer).

If you have the Cinestill powder kit, it should be easier -- one of the envelopes will contain the distinctive slippery prismatic crystals of sodium thiosulfate -- that's the core of your fixer. Of course, any rapid fixer will fix color film; it's the bleach that's core to the process, and the bleaches for C-41 and E-6 are similar enough to interchange.

Well... I've seen definite improvement in quality after I moved my B/W processing from a lab to my own hands, plus I no longer see any dust on my negatives. Based on what I'm reading, I doubt I will see similar improvement with C-41 because it's so standartized...

If you're getting less dust on your B&W negatives, you'll probably get less dust on your C-41 negs as well -- but if you're judging by scans from the processing center, your dust experience might be magnified by the fact that in-scanner dust removal mostly doesn't work on silver-image B&W films (it depends on IR transmission, and image silver blocks the IR).

 

[Mr Bill]

I've heard people say separate bleach and fixer can give better sharpness and lower contrast. The only other kits I've found with these seperate are for 5L or more - I don't shoot that much. Thoughts?

I really doubt that one would see any difference in the final film due to use of blix vs separate bleach and fix, assuming that they both are working properly. In both cases the goal is to remove "all" of the silver from the film, more or less, so if this is done...what difference could there be?

Now, in the standard commercial process film goes directly from developer to bleach, so it is crucial for the bleach to halt development quickly and evenly. If this doesn't happen, there is the possibility of seeing artifacts on the film, so a marginal blix would likely be a problem. But in the real world commercial processors doing a significant volume don't use a blix for film. The reasons are mainly economic and environmental. If your bleach and fix are combined into a blix you lose your ability to stretch out the life of the bleach - the fixer sets a hard limit on that. So consequently there will be a greater amount of chemical waste PER ROLL.

Now, when you use these on a small scale you don't generally care that much about stretching out the lifespan - your time is likely more valuable than the potential chemical cost savings. So I suspect that this is the driving force behind the combined bleach/fix. Personally I wouldn't wanna blindly trust the film blix after being mixed for a long time. A crude test, after processing, is to find a junk negative, clip it in half, and give it some more time in blix. Wash and dry, then compare it to the original half. If the blix is good there should be NO change in the negative.

Fwiw my experience has mainly been high-volume with either the mainstream suppliers or bulk mixing; nothing at all with a C-41 blix, specifically. But I HAVE spent years overseeing screening of fresh bleach and fixer mixes, periodic chemical analysis and making the regeneration formulas for the bleach (albeit an earlier version), as well as the "process control," that is, monitoring the the actual result on film. So I have some familiarity with what goes on.

If I were gonna do a few rolls of at-home processing I don't think it would bother me to use a blix. But again, I wouldn't trust it beyond a day or two without verification per the rebleach test. If it's getting "weak" you should be able to restore bleaching power by aerating it - put some blix in an oversized jar and shake it up for a half minute or so. The downside is that this destroys some of the sulfite that protects the fixer part, and this may be what eventually "kills" the blix.

 

[Mr Bill]

The main benefit of separate bleach and fix is that bleach likes oxygen and fixer doesn't -- if they're mixed, they're slowly destroying each other; ...

Yep.

In commercial use there are a couple more significant things. These people, for the most part, at least in the US, are under stringent effluent regulations. So they wanna use a minimum amount of bleach. This means using replenishment plus collecting the overflow and regenerating it, which converts the former waste back into replenisher. This drastically reduces the amount of waste. If the fixer is mixed in with the bleach, can't do this. The fixer essentially cannot be reused, even if the silver is removed, because it is essentially "poisoned," presumably by iodide released by C-41 films. The rate of fixing slows way down, and presumably it would eventually stop removing all of the silver from the film. Now, when it comes to recovering the silver from fix, this is pretty easy with an electrolytic system (costly equipment, but sensible for a commercial lab). But... when the fixer is combined with bleach this is an uphill battle.

As a note, these things are all doable with a PAPER process. Paper doesn't release the "poisoning" byproducts that film does, so paper blix CAN be desilvered and regenerated. But it does require special high-current-density electrolytic units (a unit made for fixer can't do it) and an aeration step (LOTS of aeration, with a chemical test to see when there has been enough) before the chemical regeneration.

 

[MattKing]

To summarize - a properly working blix does the job well.
Blix doesn't work properly for all that long.
An improperly working blix does not do the job well.

 

[Karl Ramberg]

How long does mixed Blix usually last? I've had mine mixed and in use since January.

 

[Donald Qualls]

How long does mixed Blix usually last? I've had mine mixed and in use since January.

Cinestill says to use their chemistry within two months of mixing. I wouldn't count on blix to last longer than that.