`which are the best chemicals to use in B&W photography

silvercloud2323 · Jan 5, 2023

hi

`which are the best chemicals to use in B&W photography? I mean by that what chemical has a great impact on the printing process and the look of a print?

From developers , bleachers , toners, reducers , intensifiers to liquids and chemicals outside the range of photography.
No matter what product ,as long it has an impact or is a manipulation of the final print.

Alex Benjamin · Jan 5, 2023

silvercloud2323 said:
I mean by that what chemical has a great impact on the printing process and the look of a print?

All of them. In the sense that film photography is a process in which chemicals are involved throughout, and all chemicals have an impact the degree of which varies not according to the chemicals themselves but to the effect and end result the photographer wants.

Poor and obvious answer, I know, but the only possible one with regards to the way your question is asked.

So I'll ask: what effect or result are you looking for?

silvercloud2323 · Jan 5, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
All of them. In the sense that film photography is a process in which chemicals are involved throughout, and all chemicals have an impact the degree of which varies not according to the chemicals themselves but to the effect and end result the photographer wants.

Poor and obvious answer, I know, but the only possible one with regards to the way your question is asked.

So I'll ask: what effect or result are you looking for?

Hi Alex,
The effects i am looking for are ways to deconstruct photos. Giving them an extra layer of information. An effect for example that shows the passing of time. Like Michael Ackerman's photos. Ways to influence or manipulate the the developing process in a way that is visually interesting.
Partly by destroying the print.

Alex Benjamin · Jan 5, 2023

silvercloud2323 said:
Hi Alex,
The effects i am looking for are ways to deconstruct photos. Giving them an extra layer of information. An effect for example that shows the passing of time. Like Michael Ackerman's photos. Ways to influence or manipulate the the developing process in a way that is visually interesting.
Partly by destroying the print.

Sounds interesting ! I did not know Michael Ackerman, so I had to look him up. Found this interesting excerpt that deals somehow with you subject:

"It certainly isn’t about the equipment, the cameras come and go, sometimes literally broken but still pressed into use. I think Michael feels that taking pictures and taking chances should be kindred enterprises. I’ve met few artists less uptight about the technology and intricacies of gear and production, though he does of course become completely intimate with what he needs in order to get at what he feels. Once I heard him suggest in a Q & A that he just doesn’t care about technique, but knowing the time and tortures he’s given over to darkroom work, I thought that was a touch disingenuous. He meant that technique and technology are never the core of the matter, and that he doesn’t like to be precious about them. And he needs accidents; they might reveal something, break something open. Sometimes they might go too far and the image itself is obliterated: again, necessary risk. I’ve seen him photograph without putting the camera to his eye, as if to confirm that what he was after wasn’t primarily even about seeing. (That too is deceptive; with time, some photographers know what the camera is getting, regardless of where it’s held). Maybe I mean that compared to many other photographers, Michael’s work isn’t so concerned with sight itself. If he could have been a writer, painter, or a musician, that might have worked too."

Michael Ackerman

www.all-about-photo.com

I don't think there's an easy answer to your question. It might come down to straight-forward development of the negative with wild experimenting in the darkroom to wild experimenting in the development of the negative to near straight-forward development in the darkroom to wild experiment in all stages, including experimenting with cameras and lenses and films and paper in various states. And as is often the case, you might find part of the answer by accident.

You should take a look at the book Darkroom published by Lustrum Press in 1977. You have a bunch of darkroom "experimentors" like Ralph Gibson, Betty Hahn, Eikoh Hosoe and others talking about their process and different chemistries and techniques involved. It might inspire you.

Sirius Glass · Jan 5, 2023

I found that XTOL is a fine grain developer with very smooth tonality that is very forgiving to errors such as variations in development time.

I use it with stop bath with indicator.

Alex Benjamin · Jan 5, 2023

I have to say, the more I look at Ackerman's work, the more I find it fascinating.

This article mentions that he shoots with a Holga.

Michael Ackerman - Half Life — Tristan Parker Photography

I was lucky enough to get my copy of Half Life by Michael Ackerman a few months back. A good friend let me know about the book and the fact there were a small number of them available from VU . He said that I had to buy it, simple as that... It was sound advice and shows how much this friend knows

fixedfocallife.com

silvercloud2323 · Jan 5, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
I have to say, the more I look at Ackerman's work, the more I find it fascinating.

This article mentions that he shoots with a Holga.

Michael Ackerman - Half Life — Tristan Parker Photography

I was lucky enough to get my copy of Half Life by Michael Ackerman a few months back. A good friend let me know about the book and the fact there were a small number of them available from VU . He said that I had to buy it, simple as that... It was sound advice and shows how much this friend knows

fixedfocallife.com

Hi Alex,

Yes Michael's work is very fascinating. I like it very much. Once i met him at a presentation of his work. He is very kind man.

MattKing · Jan 5, 2023

The question posed is akin to asking what the "best" musical instrument is .
Some chemicals just do their jobs and help make sure a black and white photograph will hang around for a few years. Fixer being the example that comes to mind. Washing aids and water washes too.
Some chemicals make it possible for images to appear in the first case. Developers are the first example that come to mind.
Some chemicals help others do their main job well. Stop bath is an example of that.
And some chemicals help you change the nature of an existing image. Toners and bleaches are examples, and I think are closer to what you are looking for.
But I think that what you are actually looking for are techniques, combined with less usual processes that are designed to distort and manipulate the straight-forward. Techniques like emulsion lifts and gum-over processes and techniques like encaustic that add things to a print.
I think though that Michael Akerman is manipulating light as much as he is modifying his use of chemicals.

Neal · Jan 6, 2023

Virtually all the available materials today are wonderful. The skill and artistry of the printer is the key. That's why my photos are so ordinary. Still trying though!

silvercloud2323 · Jan 6, 2023

Neal said:
Virtually all the available materials today are wonderful. The skill and artistry of the printer is the key. That's why my photos are so ordinary. Still trying though!

hi Neal ,

Where to find and learn the skills of a printer on the internet or books?

Sirius Glass · Jan 6, 2023

silvercloud2323 said:
hi Neal ,

Where to find and learn the skills of a printer on the internet or books?

Both. Here on Photrio you can get answers quickly as they arise when you cannot find the answers on your own. The only stupid question is the one that remains unasked. None of us were born with this knowledge and we all had to learn it somewhere or from someone. Many are here to payback the help they got when they were learning about photography.

Alex Benjamin · Jan 6, 2023

silvercloud2323 said:
hi Neal ,

Where to find and learn the skills of a printer on the internet or books?

Tim Rudman's The Photographer's Master Printing Course is an excellent resource.

Chuck1 · Jan 6, 2023

a little thc never hurts(previous post left it wide open)

Don_ih · Jan 6, 2023

You can vary times and temperatures to have an impact on negative development. You can heat and cool during the rinsing stage to cause reticulation. You can selenium tone the negative, which will have effects depending on the emulsion itself and it's exposure and development - that can boost contrast or even somewhat bleach midtones (you find out what will happen when you do it). You can bleach back developed prints and redevelop in lith developer. You can selectively apply farmer's reducer to prints, rewash, fully bleach, redevelop. You can do Sabattier on prints while developing them. You can iron tone, copper tone, selenium tone, sepia tone prints. You can try enlarging negatives to lith film, then enlarging the lith film onto paper, then contact printing that print....

Oh the wonderful things you can do.

silvercloud2323 said:
Where to find and learn the skills of a printer on the internet or books?

You learn them by printing.

btaylor · Jan 6, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Tim Rudman's The Photographer's Master Printing Course is an excellent resource.

Thank for the tip- I don't have this book. The 1994 edition can be had for $11.50 used. Just ordered one. I have Rudman's toning book- this guy knows his stuff.

awty · Jan 6, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Tim Rudman's The Photographer's Master Printing Course is an excellent resource.

Great book, the only one I have ever used.

You need to start by good composition, working the light and dodge and burn. The chemistry is only secondary to the out come. Rudmans book shows you how, then its up to you to spend years making thousands of print perfecting it.

Slixtiesix · Jan 7, 2023

For film development, the combination of film and developer is really important for the final result, but of course, it is the proper development time as well. Stop bath and fixer do not really have an impact on how the final image will look like, as long as they are used properly. (If they are not used properly, they will mess up the image of course).
When it comes to the printing process, chemicals are not that important. The choice of paper is the most important thing. The developer can only tweak it slightly into a preferred direction (more cold or warm image tone). Again, stop bath and fixer do not, if properly used, effect the look of the print. Toner can make a difference, but it also depends on the paper. There are some papers that react very readily to different developers and toners and other papers show barely any difference at all.
Forte Polywarmtone Fibre was a paper much praised for its response to various developers and toners, but currently out of production. If you want to experiment, I can recommend Fomatone MG classc. Avoid any RC paper with a neutral or cool image tone. They do not respond well to different chemicals, the image tone will stay almost the same.

gone · Jan 7, 2023

We have to look at the whole of film photography and not just one part. The negative is where we start, and that's influenced by everything under the sun. Type of light/lens/film/filter(s)/film developer/EI of the film, the method of developing, subject matter, whether the camera is 35mm, MF, LF, etc. All of that will influence the look of the print.

Figure all that out and then you can try toning (or not toning, there doesn't seem to be anything in between those 2 methods), different print developers, different enlarging papers and alternative processes. Or just forget all that and go make a print w/ just a test strip or two. It will be easy if you have a good negative.

In the beginning, just shoot Tri-X, develop it in D76, F76 Plus or Rodinal and pick an RC paper w/ a finish that you like. You'll be able to make excellent prints right away.

I wasted many years and tons of money fixing things in post w/ PS and then making non darkroom prints. It works and the prints are nice but they don't look like darkroom prints (especially FB prints), and it sure was a LOT of work to make a print.

redbandit · Jan 7, 2023

momus said:
We have to look at the whole of film photography and not just one part. The negative is where we start, and that's influenced by everything under the sun. Type of light/lens/film/filter(s)/film developer/EI of the film, the method of developing, subject matter, whether the camera is 35mm, MF, LF, etc. Figure that out and the print sorta prints itself.

I wasted many years and tons of money fixing things in post w/ PS and then making non darkroom prints. It works and the prints are nice, but they don't look like darkroom prints (especially FB prints), and it was sure a LOT of work to make a print.

Everything has an impact, but the greatest impact is when you dont try to capture some non existent moment when a image appears when the paper is in the developer.

Neal · Jan 7, 2023

Hi Silvercloud323,

In addition to the above:

Creative Elements

B&W Printing Workshop

Post Exposure

Post Exposure is more of a technical piece. I would wait until you are comfortable before buying that.

Good luck, Neal Wydra

Craig · Jan 7, 2023

Slixtiesix said:
Avoid any RC paper with a neutral or cool image tone. They do not respond well to different chemicals, the image tone will stay almost the same.

Unless you want a cool tone. I'd never use a warmtone paper, it's a horrible look.

MattKing · Jan 7, 2023

Slixtiesix said:
Avoid any RC paper with a neutral or cool image tone. They do not respond well to different chemicals, the image tone will stay almost the same.

I'm afraid this is an over-simplification.
As an example, the modern, neutral tone Ilford RC papers are designed to give very similar tones with a wide variety of developers - that is a design goal. As a result, they respond very little to some toners - selenium toners being a prime example - but quite well to a range of other toners like sepia toner and brown toner. And the Ilford RC Cooltone papers are quite responsive to a few more.
My experience with the Oriental RC papers - the most recent ones which seem to be manufactured by Harman - is that they are more responsive to toners than the Ilford branded papers.
This is a selenium toned postcard on Oriental:

pentaxuser · Jan 7, 2023

I wasn't quite sure what effects you were seeking, silvercloud2323 but are we covering in our answers what information you are seeking

Thanks

pentaxuser

Slixtiesix · Jan 8, 2023

MattKing said:
I'm afraid this is an over-simplification.
As an example, the modern, neutral tone Ilford RC papers are designed to give very similar tones with a wide variety of developers - that is a design goal. As a result, they respond very little to some toners - selenium toners being a prime example - but quite well to a range of other toners like sepia toner and brown toner. And the Ilford RC Cooltone papers are quite responsive to a few more.
My experience with the Oriental RC papers - the most recent ones which seem to be manufactured by Harman - is that they are more responsive to toners than the Ilford branded papers.
This is a selenium toned postcard on Oriental:
View attachment 326056

Seems like I presented outdated knowledge from the past. Many thanks for clarifying and for showing this example. I may try this paper as well!

`which are the best chemicals to use in B&W photography

silvercloud2323

Alex Benjamin

silvercloud2323

Alex Benjamin

Michael Ackerman

Sirius Glass

Alex Benjamin

Michael Ackerman - Half Life — Tristan Parker Photography

silvercloud2323

Michael Ackerman - Half Life — Tristan Parker Photography

MattKing

Moderator

Neal

silvercloud2323

Sirius Glass

Alex Benjamin

Chuck1

Don_ih

btaylor

awty

Slixtiesix

gone

redbandit

Neal

Craig

MattKing

Moderator

pentaxuser

Slixtiesix

`which are the best chemicals to use in B&W photography

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency