Which 50mm Zeiss for Hasselblad 501C?

[rrunnertexas]

I would like to purchase a wide angle lens (50mm) for my Hasselblad 501C. Looking around I see that there are multiple versions of the lens with different designations. I'm sure they were meant to indicate different coatings or lens design. Also, some are f/4 while others are 2.8. The price range is also wide.


Of the different lenses, are there some that are much better than the others? Any lenses to avoid in this type?


Thanks for the help.

David

 

[BrianShaw]

The best one is that which balances condition and price. You may need to consider your need for reliability and return on investment.

 

[JW PHOTO]

I have the older chrome 50mm f4 Distagon and have never had a reason to upgrade. I like the way it renders images. Are other 50mm 'blad lenses better? Probably, but I'm happy for now. Oh, actually I've been happy with it for about 21 or 22 years now. Each to his own I guess. John W

 

[Sirius Glass]

The C lenses use a B50 filters and there can be parts shortage problems with the springs. C lenses, unless marked with red T*, have only a single coating and are more likely to show flares when aimed at or near bright light sources [more so for wide angles lenses such as the 40mm, 50mm and 60mm lenses]. They are the oldest of the lenses.

The CF, CFi and CFE lenses use B60 filters and are multicoated [marked with a red T*]. One set of B60 filters will work for almost all those lenses. I use CF lenses. CFi and CFE have electrical connections for digital backs. CFE lenses have floating elements in the front for finer focus control close up. The CFE lenses are a bit more pricey.

Again I use the CF lenses. The exception is that I just bought a C 500mm lens because the price was around $400US while the CF version is around $1800US to $2500US. I do not plan on using the 500mm that much.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I would like to purchase a wide angle lens (50mm) for my Hasselblad 501C. Looking around I see that there are multiple versions of the lens with different designations. I'm sure they were meant to indicate different coatings or lens design. Also, some are f/4 while others are 2.8. The price range is also wide.


Of the different lenses, are there some that are much better than the others? Any lenses to avoid in this type?


Thanks for the help.

David

all I know from using it for 20 years now is that the 50mmf/4 DistagonFLE CFT* is excellent, although,I find the double distance setting a bit la borious; Don't understand why Zeiss didn't automate the 2nd settingwith the first;seems to be possible considering all the other automations on a Hasselblad. However it improves corner sharpness compared to the non-FLE

 

[Slixtiesix]

You cannot use the f2,8 Distagons on your 501C (these were designed for the 2000/200 series only), so the choice is pretty much between the old C-lenses (chrome, single coated, black, multi coated), the CF (same optics as C version, new barrel design), CF FLE (new optics with floating elements) or CFi (again new barrel design, same optics as CF FLE).
I have the old 50/4 for my SL66 and it is decent. Very nice if stopped down to f8 or f11 and beautiful slides although only single coated. However it is rather soft when you use it wide open and in the closer focusing range. This is were the FLE version should be better. Please also mind that the older shutters in the C-lenses may need service sooner or later. To keep things short: if you mostly shoot at infinity, like the old chrome/full metal design and don´t fear having the lens serviced if needed, buy an old C lens. If you want newer mechanics but don´t want to spend too much, buy the CF pre FLE. If you need maximum performance at close and far distances, buy the CF FLE. If you want the newest lens and money is no issue, get the CFi.

 

[rrunnertexas]

Great advice! Being new to Hasselblad, I had no idea the f/2,8 would not work on my 501C. Thank you much for that info!

From the information so far, sounds like maybe the f/4 CF version at a lower price, or the CF FLE for a bit more $ would be great choices.

 

[Chris Livsey]

From oldest to most recent for your 501C

• Distagon f/4 50 mm C Later models are T* coated and marked as such 63mm filter
• Distagon f/4 50 mm CF from 1982 All T* coated, shutter Prontor design, 60mm filter from now on
• Distagon f/4 50 mm CF (FLE) secondary ring for moving elements for better close focus performance (Floating Lens Eement- Get it !! )
• Distagon f/4 50 mm CFi (FLE) i for Improved, interior coating and body design Also an E version CFE later with electrical contacts based on the i design.
• Distagon f/4 50 mm ZV Classic Last series made as the V system ran down not many about were expensive, even for Hassselblad ! From 2006 no electrics may still be available new?
• (The CB series was a "cheaper" range in 1997 no 50mm in that range was made.)

Simply, as you come down the list price will rise, it is of course dependant on condition.
The early C non T* lens gives a lower contrast, that is still favoured by many shooters notably in portraiture.
The early shutters before the Prontor, the Synchro-Compur, can be more expensive to repair and parts are become scarcer, many will argue with that as repair shops vary in the parts they have available so experience varies.
To see a difference in a final negative between any of those lenses you would have to have a "golden" eye IMHO.


You have obviously seen these BUT they are for the F Series (They have no shutter in the lens and cannot be used with your 501C

• Distagon f/2.8 50 mm F (FLE)
• Distagon f/2.8 50 mm FE (FLE)

To answer your questions: There are small difference between them, even the "recent" i range it is hard to see a difference except in extreme circumstances eg resistance to flare.
Avoid any with obvious fungus of course and any hint of a "lazy" shutter, if not fired regularly the lubricants "gum" up and a strip down is required unless you spend an evening firing blanks which can work.
Heavily used examples may be that because they are particularly good!! There is some quality variation but you are unlikely to see it on film unless the lens has been dropped and the elements mis-aligned.
What lens/ lenses have you as the above pattern is common to all the focal lengths, with of course some exceptions such as the Superachromats and UV Sonnars so you should become familiar if you are extending the set?

 

[ic-racer]

I recently upgraded from a 50/4 Distagon (1980s) to a 50/4 Distagon with floating element (1990s). Rolleiflex lenses with similar or identical glass to Hasselblad mount. No way to tell from random negatives of my work which is which. The main reason I upgraded was for TTL-open aperture metering.

 

[JW PHOTO]

From oldest to most recent for your 501C

• Distagon f/4 50 mm C Later models are T* coated and marked as such 63mm filter
• Distagon f/4 50 mm CF from 1982 All T* coated, shutter Prontor design, 60mm filter from now on
• Distagon f/4 50 mm CF (FLE) secondary ring for moving elements for better close focus performance (Floating Lens Eement- Get it !! )
• Distagon f/4 50 mm CFi (FLE) i for Improved, interior coating and body design Also an E version CFE later with electrical contacts based on the i design.
• Distagon f/4 50 mm ZV Classic Last series made as the V system ran down not many about were expensive, even for Hassselblad ! From 2006 no electrics may still be available new?
• (The CB series was a "cheaper" range in 1997 no 50mm in that range was made.)

Simply, as you come down the list price will rise, it is of course dependant on condition.
The early C non T* lens gives a lower contrast, that is still favoured by many shooters notably in portraiture.
The early shutters before the Prontor, the Synchro-Compur, can be more expensive to repair and parts are become scarcer, many will argue with that as repair shops vary in the parts they have available so experience varies.
To see a difference in a final negative between any of those lenses you would have to have a "golden" eye IMHO.


You have obviously seen these BUT they are for the F Series (They have no shutter in the lens and cannot be used with your 501C

• Distagon f/2.8 50 mm F (FLE)
• Distagon f/2.8 50 mm FE (FLE)

To answer your questions: There are small difference between them, even the "recent" i range it is hard to see a difference except in extreme circumstances eg resistance to flare.
Avoid any with obvious fungus of course and any hint of a "lazy" shutter, if not fired regularly the lubricants "gum" up and a strip down is required unless you spend an evening firing blanks which can work.
Heavily used examples may be that because they are particularly good!! There is some quality variation but you are unlikely to see it on film unless the lens has been dropped and the elements mis-aligned.
What lens/ lenses have you as the above pattern is common to all the focal lengths, with of course some exceptions such as the Superachromats and UV Sonnars so you should become familiar if you are extending the set?

Yes, the older C-Distagons are getting up there in years, but there are still fine examples out there that will keep ticking for years to come. The nice thing is you can buy an older C 50mm f4 for almost nothing. Try one sand if you don't like it sell it. Two just sold on eBay for peanuts. One went for $124.99 and the other for $139.00. Both were from KEH and probably a fine deal. There were some others that went for less than $100.00. That makes them almost disposable. John W

 

[rrunnertexas]

Wow! That is really great information. So much to think about.

I just started to look, so no idea that the older C models could go for so little.

I may look at a few of those if I can find one in nice condition. However, I do like the thought of maybe a bit more sharpness with the FLE model? Hummm

Sure would be nice to see a side by side comparison of an image taken with both the older C and the newer FLE.

 

[rrunnertexas]

I found this lens on a popular site. Is the price about right for this condition?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151877376379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[Sirius Glass]

I found this lens on a popular site. Is the price about right for this condition?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151877376379?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

You find lenses in better condition, easily returnable if there is a problem, and they can fix of service the lens at KEH. www.keh.com

 

[Theo Sulphate]

all I know from using it for 20 years now is that the 50mmf/4 DistagonFLE CFT* is excellent, although,I find the double distance setting a bit la borious; Don't understand why Zeiss didn't automate the 2nd settingwith the first;seems to be possible considering all the other automations on a Hasselblad. However it improves corner sharpness compared to the non-FLE

Zeiss added the second focus ring at my request because I enjoy having as many rings, knobs, and controls as possible.

You're correct, though: the lens is excellent. About 17 years ago I used my 50/4 CF FLE to make a scenic photograph from Crown Point in the Columbia River Gorge and, on the 16x20 print, distinct images of individual cars were visible on I-84 out to about 4.3 miles away (this was on Tech Pan). That photo is sharp edge to edge.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Given the price and the cost of repair I would strongly recommend buying from a dealer, pay a little more, and in some cases it is a little, and get that guarantee. in the UK commonly 6months, worth its weight with the C lenses.
The main issue of auction sites is they will probably have not been tested (even if they say so!!) or indeed shot at all for years and come with issues that will cost more than the price to fix. I am not sure how dealers on auction sites work with any guarantee. I don't frequent them since I was hacked.
I am sure some are bargains, just not all of them.

 

[rrunnertexas]

Zeiss added the second focus ring at my request because I enjoy having as many rings, knobs, and controls as possible.

Yes, me too! Something else to remember when focusing. lol I think the Mamiya RB67 50mm lens has that same arrangement.

 

[rrunnertexas]

Given the price and the cost of repair I would strongly recommend buying from a dealer, pay a little more, and in some cases it is a little, and get that guarantee.

Point well taken.

Some searching revealed the FLE lens from dealers between 600-700 dollars. Ouch.... :confused:

 

[Richard Man]

I have many good experience with purchasing from the auction sites, FWIW. You are pretty much protected against scam or DoA with eb*y/payp*l, but of course the lens may still not performed up to snuff.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The C lenses use a B50 filters and there can be parts shortage problems with the springs. C lenses, unless marked with red T*, have only a single coating and are more likely to show flares when aimed at or near bright light sources [more so for wide angles lenses such as the 40mm, 50mm and 60mm lenses]. They are the oldest of the lenses.

The CF, CFi and CFE lenses use B60 filters and are multicoated [marked with a red T*]. One set of B60 filters will work for almost all those lenses. I use CF lenses. CFi and CFE have electrical connections for digital backs. CFE lenses have floating elements in the front for finer focus control close up. The CFE lenses are a bit more pricey.

Again I use the CF lenses. The exception is that I just bought a C 500mm lens because the price was around $400US while the CF version is around $1800US to $2500US. I do not plan on using the 500mm that much.

Actually, the C 50mm takes a series VIII filter. It does not take the Bayonet 50 like the 80, 120, 150 and 250 did. That was one of the (many) drivers behind the change from the C to the CF lens design. With the CF, only the extreme lenses (40, 30 fisheye, 350 and 500) require a non- Bayonet 60 filter. The C lens series had more filter varieties required (Series VIII drop-in, Bay 104, 50) each with a different attachment system.

 

[GarageBoy]

I really wish Hasselblad used a slightly more complex internal helicoid rather than a pair of rings that you'll forget to use when working quickly

 

[Chris Livsey]

Lots of people must be shooting different scenes than me.
The ring only needs moving when the point of focus is less than 4 Metres , for me that is rare, your mileage obviously does vary.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I really wish Hasselblad used a slightly more complex internal helicoid rather than a pair of rings that you'll forget to use when working quickly

Either set the front ring before you focus [you know what the range of the photograph is even before you raise the camera to your eye] or dump the CFE lens and get the less expensive CF lens. Life is a bitch and then you die.

Besides an internal helicoid would not move the front element separately. If it could they were smart enough to design it that way.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

The 50/4 CF FLE lens was very expensive when new. It could also be the case Hasselblad was keeping the lens somewhat more affordable by having a second manually operated ring.

 

[Chris Livsey]

UK price 2008 was:
CFi 50mm £2,408.75
CFE IF 40mm an eye watering £3,501.50

The 80mm at the time was £1,480.50 for comparison.

 

[Slixtiesix]

However they had managed to design an internal FLE for the 50/2,8 years before. Maybe the shutter mechanism was in the way...