Where to find Sodium Bisulfite?

Dry Rack.jpg

A
Dry Rack.jpg

  • 2
  • 0
  • 18
Merriam Crater

A
Merriam Crater

  • 2
  • 0
  • 17
Merriam Crater

A
Merriam Crater

  • 1
  • 0
  • 17
IMG_3344.jpeg

A
IMG_3344.jpeg

  • 3
  • 2
  • 25

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,482
Messages
2,775,866
Members
99,628
Latest member
DanielCTracht
Recent bookmarks
1

Michael Howard

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
134
Location
South Carolina
Format
Multi Format
I'm having a hard time locating reasonably priced Sodium Bisulfite for a couple of old formulas I want to try. Photo Formulary...nope. Artcraft...never heard of it. Does anyone out there ever use it, and where do you get it? Alternatively, is there a substitute/conversion available?
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,494
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Both B&H and Amazon seem to be offering it… interestingly, OF branded.
 
OP
OP
Michael Howard

Michael Howard

Subscriber
Joined
Mar 12, 2007
Messages
134
Location
South Carolina
Format
Multi Format
Amazon seems to have only solution or 2 ounces at a time, which I suppose could work. Didn't bother to check B&H (duh!)
Edit: Ok, that is weird. PF doesn't offer it on their site, but B&H has there's cheap. Thanks, Brian!
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,494
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
I don’t know what janitors do with it, but I saw a listing for a “bucketful” at a janitors supply company.

Hope B&H works out for you!
 

revdoc

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
289
Format
35mm
Try looking for sodium metabisulfite at home brewing suppliers. It's used to sterilise brewing equipment and is functionally identical to bisulfite.
 

lamerko

Member
Joined
Oct 27, 2022
Messages
756
Location
Bulgaria
Format
Multi Format
It's hard to find in Europe, but you don't have to - just use Sodium metabisulfite . Even as far as I can remember, in the Kodak formulas where they mention bisulfite, it is actually metabisulfite.
 

Rudeofus

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
5,074
Location
EU
Format
Medium Format
Sodium Bisulfite is Sodium Metabisulfite with an extra molecule of water: Na2S2O5 + H2O <===> 2 NaHSO3. Since, unlike the other, Sodium Metabisulfite is a lot more stable, this is the compound typically sold.
 

Don_ih

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
7,628
Location
Ontario
Format
35mm RF
Sodium Bisulfite is Sodium Metabisulfite with an extra molecule of water: Na2S2O5 + H2O <===> 2 NaHSO3.

What does that mean for measuring? You should then need less sodium metabisulfite to equal whatever amount of sodium bisulfite listed?
 

john_s

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 19, 2002
Messages
2,138
Location
Melbourne, A
Format
Medium Format
In a post years ago I supplied a link to an article by Ryuji Suzuki about bisulfite/metabisulfite (around 2008). I have found it on the wayback machine and here is the full text:

Sodium bisulfite, NaHSO3, and sodium metabisulfite, Na2S2O5

Sodium bisulfite and sodium metabisulfite are different chemicals. When metabisulfite is dissolved in water at a reasonably low concentration, one mole of metabisulfite and one mole of water form two moles of bisulfite. Therefore, they are functionally very similar. The difference is the weight they should be substituted at. The difference is small, and is usually nothing to worry about in photographic chemistry. However, in some sensitive developers, this may make sizable difference in pH.

Pure sodium bisulfite is rarely traded for industrial or photographic purposes in dry form, because pure dry form is unstable. However, there is a supplier who sells it in expensive analytical reagent grade in dry form. There are also many suppliers who sell mixture of sodium bisulfite and metabisulfite. The ratio varies across suppliers, but usually about half-half. Sodium bisulfite can be kept in dry form if blended with metabisulfite. Both sodium bisulfite and sodium metabisulfite are most commonly available in anhydrous forms.

Michael Gudzinowicz pointed out that Kodak sells sodium metabisulfite as sodium bisulfite under their label. Kodak's MSDS confirms this. Therefore, when Eastman Kodak Company calls for sodium bisulfite, they mean sodium metabisulfite. If you are buying chemicals from Photographer's Formulary, Johnny Deiure, Digitaltruth or other chemical suppliers, I suggest not to bother with higher priced sodium bisulfite, and purchase sodium metabisulfite. If you publish your formula, it is my opinion that correct name for the chemical you employed, sodium metabisulfite or Na2S2O5, is much preferred to avoid further confusion. (at the expense of four more letters)

Richard Knoppow took his effort and found what we think is Kodak researcher's reasoning for this substitution. Crabtree and Mathews (1938) stated as follows: "Ordinary sodium bisulphite has been shown by analysis to consist chiefly of metabisulphite which is converted into tbisulphite when dissolved in water. Sodium bisulphite may be substituted weight for weight for potasssium metabisulphite. Either chemical is equally satisfactory but the former is usually prefered since it costs from one-third to one-half the prince of teh altter and is available on the American market, at least, in a very pure form." (Ch VII, p.117) They further proceeded to say as follows. "The Preservative. -- It is now customary to substitute sodium bisulphite for potassium metabisulphite weight for weight in either developer of fixing bath formulas. According to Harrison and Carrol(1) the stability of commercial sodium bisulphite is a function of its crystaline structure and also of its lack of moisture content. Furthermore, these authors have proved by analysis that there is very little actual sodium hydrogen sulphite present in commercial sodium bisulphite; the major portion of the sample consisting of sodium metabisulphite. Commercially dry sodium bisulphite of satisfactory quality is now obtainaboe and may be used in mixing formulas calling for either the metabisulphite or the bisulphite. A very intersting discussion of the comparitive properties of the sulphites, maetbisulphites, and acid sulphites has been published by Wall (2)." (Ch. X, p.215)

Crabtree, J. I. and Mathews, G. E. 1938. Photographic Chemicals and Solutions, Boston: American Photographic Book Publishing Co.

Harrison, J. B. P. and Carrol, M. F. 1925. "The Composition and Evaluation of Commercial Sodium Bisulphite," J. Soc. Chem. Ind., 44, 127.

Wall, E. J. 1927. "Sulphites, Metabisulphites, and Acid Sulphite," American Photography, 16, 127
{Moderator edit: the quote above first appeared on the forum here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/metabisulfite-in-pmk.76197/post-1052232
However, the source provided in that post is no longer correct.}
 
Last edited by a moderator:

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,494
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Nothing is better than a well-written research paper first thing in the morning with a good cup of coffee. :smile: That should be bookmarked in the formulas section do easy future finding!
 

Rudeofus

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
5,074
Location
EU
Format
Medium Format
What does that mean for measuring? You should then need less sodium metabisulfite to equal whatever amount of sodium bisulfite listed?

Since the real Sodium Bisulfite is hideously expensive, I would assume, that all photographic formulas referring to it actually mean Sodium Metabisulfite. Therefore I don't think, that you will have to do a weight conversion.
 

Don_ih

Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2021
Messages
7,628
Location
Ontario
Format
35mm RF
I think the upshot is that the majority of what's labelled sodium bisulfite is actually sodium metabisulfite, especially if it's reasonably priced.
 

Rudeofus

Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
5,074
Location
EU
Format
Medium Format
Bostick and Sullivan carries sodium bisulfite and is reasonably priced.

They also list the CAS number for their product: 7681-57-4. You probably know, where this goes ...
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom