Where does the rapid evolution of photography leave us

[removed account4]

so where does that leave its ‘artisanal’ future?

its leaves its artisanal future just that, something that few people are skilled at and having some value because of
its rarity and most likely because the further down the modern rabbit hole consumer photography travels, the further back from 1910
artisanal photography goes. not saying it will go far enough that no companies make film and paper but the tree will be pruned more
and it will be more hand crafted than ever..

 

[jtk]

Good digital work is ultra-artisanal and maximum hand crafted...much like Michaelangelo's work, most of which was crafted not by his hand, but by intelligent intermediaries on the finest possible media...no mere junque and no limits in SIZE.

 

[removed account4]

i have no idea how digital files and ink jet prints can be ultra artisanal maximum hand crafted like michealangelos work.
i guess it goes along the same lines as ink jet prints that require no light to make are more photographic than photographic prints ..
makes absolutely no sense unless by the same definition an artisanal hand crafted meal comes out of a nozzle...

ADDED LATER

as far as I know size really has nothing to do with whether something is artisanal but its more related to commerce
and there is a difference, that said i would never have been able to make 8foot by 6foot prints printers have made for me
without tech.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

i have no idea how digital files and ink jet prints can be ultra artisanal maximum hand crafted like michealangelos work.
i guess it goes along the same lines as ink jet prints that require no light to make are more photographic than photographic prints ..
makes absolutely no sense unless by the same definition an artisanal hand crafted meal comes out of a nozzle...

The goal is age. How you got there doesn't matter. There were thousands of painters a hundred and more years ago that decried photography because it wasn't real art. It takes just as much, albeit different, skills to make a top notch inkjet print.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

All my cameras take film and all my radios have tubes. I have zero interest in digital, or any frequency not on my Hammarlunds. I can't stop others from participating in a technology that drives the very craft it was designed for into extinction, but not me.

Ah, the purity police.

BTW, did you know Kodak showed St. Ansel one of their lab digital cameras? And what his reaction was? He thought it great. Whole new frontiers.

I presume your radio is battery operated regenerative.............. pre super heterodyne.

 

[warden]

The courts long ago settled the question of needing permission if one is in a public space. You don't.

I assume you’re just referring to USA? I imagine there are places where it’s not permitted.

 

[RPC]

Photography has always been evolving. I would say the big quantum leaps were:

From plates to flim
Reliable color with Kodachrome, ca. 1935
Digital

I would have added masked color negative film to your list. This was a major part of the evolution of photography, making possible easy to produce high quality color prints and motion pictures for the world for decades, that would not have been possible without it.

 

[NB23]

We, artist anals, love film. It’s artisanal. And yes, art is anal.

Artisanal
Art is anal
Artist anal

I’m a poet.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Watching my first 4x6" print roll off my home color printer was amazing to me as was the first time I saw a photo on a flat screen monitor having only used CRT's previously. It was also amazing. While I only wet printed once in my life 50 years ago, and that was amazing too, I find all these methods very magical. I used to watch BW TV on a 17" 480 line screen. Now I have a 75" color screen with 2160 vertical lines to also display photo slides better, IMO, than the slide projector I used to use. Today, I shoot MF film and take digital pictures with an amazing Sony P&S still and video camera. It;s all good. It's all amazing.

 

[Pioneer]

Watching my first 4x6" print roll off my home color printer was amazing to me as was the first time I saw a photo on a flat screen monitor having only used CRT's previously. It was also amazing. While I only wet printed once in my life 50 years ago, and that was amazing too, I find all these methods very magical. I used to watch BW TV on a 17" 480 line screen. Now I have a 75" color screen with 2160 vertical lines to also display photo slides better, IMO, than the slide projector I used to use. Today, I shoot MF film and take digital pictures with an amazing Sony P&S still and video camera. It;s all good. It's all amazing.

I agree Alan, it is all magic to me and I love it. The ability to capture a simple moment in time, no matter how it is done, and then present that for others to see keeps me coming back every day to see what happens next.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Dan, that's it. The magic part is capturing a moment in time. Forever.

 

[removed account4]

The goal is age. How you got there doesn't matter. There were thousands of painters a hundred and more years ago that decried photography because it wasn't real art. It takes just as much, albeit different, skills to make a top notch inkjet print.

i have no argument with any of what you have said but IDK artisanal ( to me at least ) means made by hand.

its like the difference between a hand tamped/pulled shot of espresso and one that comes out of automated jura ( or similar ) espresso machine, both are advertised as being "artisanal".

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I assume you’re just referring to USA? I imagine there are places where it’s not permitted.

Yes, as my location information notes.

Believe it or not, I am not an American who thinks there are no other cultures or people. But the majority of people on this forum are American. I should have amplified, true.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

It;s all good. It's all amazing.

That's my attitude.

I have you beat on the wet darkroom experience. My father (and his) were professional (and military) photographers. As a little boy, I would hang out in the darkroom - hey, there was the famous Marilyn Monroe picture, why wouldn't I? - and be totally amazed at a picture showing up in the developer. I still am.

First TV, almost round at my friend's house. Tiny.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

No one used the word "artisinal" until a relative few years ago. It's so overused I could puke. Coming soon to a gas pump near you: artisinal gasoline.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

I would have added masked color negative film to your list. This was a major part of the evolution of photography, making possible easy to produce high quality color prints and motion pictures for the world for decades, that would not have been possible without it.

There are a number of big evolutionary leaps that I considered, but I wanted to keep it to the most basic and transforming. Other lesser ones, like masking, might be the 35mm and smaller formats, Polaroids, the SLR, minilabs, things like that.

 

[jtk]

Good digital work is ultra-artisanal and maximum hand crafted...much like Michaelangelo's work, most of which was crafted not by his hand, but by intelligent intermediaries on the finest possible media...no mere junque and no limits in SIZE.

We all do know that most arguments against inkjet are made by people who don't have the tools (proper inkjet photo printers) AT HAND, so are ignorant.

One of the things I like most about inkjet is the astounding array of alternative papers, ranging from hand-made "artisanal" Japanese mulberry/rice to the very best watercolor paper from factories...

A substantial minority of inkjet printer users mixes their own pigments....

...In New Mexico Museum of Art in Santa Fe, I enjoyed a wonderful inkjet print, maybe 2'X3', made with oak-gall dye (familiar to weavers) used as pigment, printed on a very rough hand-made paper from Nepal.

"Artisanal" is a tiresome, trendy, cute Brooklyn buzz word.

 

[RPC]

There are a number of big evolutionary leaps that I considered, but I wanted to keep it to the most basic and transforming. Other lesser ones, like masking, might be the 35mm and smaller formats, Polaroids, the SLR, minilabs, things like that.

Built-in masking of color negatives should not be considered "lesser". As I indicated earlier it made possible high quality color photography that would not have been as easily produced without it. An elegant solution we all benefited from to major problem--dealing with dye impurities. A big evolutionary and revolutionary step that is too often overlooked. Kodachrome was not as important to the world of color photography as masked negatives.

 

[faberryman]

A substantial minority of inkjet printer users mixes their own pigments....

What is a substantial minority in terms of percentage? What is the source of your data?

 

[Paul Verizzo]

Built-in masking of color negatives should not be considered "lesser". As I indicated earlier it made possible high quality color photography that would not have been as easily produced without it. An elegant solution we all benefited from to major problem--dealing with dye impurities. A big evolutionary and revolutionary step that is too often overlooked. Kodachrome was not as important to the world of color photography as masked negatives.

My opinion, your opinion.

I say potato, you say potawto.

There is no objective answer.

 

[Paul Verizzo]

...In New Mexico Museum of Art in Santa Fe, I enjoyed a wonderful inkjet print, maybe 2'X3', made with oak-gall dye (familiar to weavers) used as pigment, printed on a very rough hand-made paper from Nepal.

But is the image any better than conventional materials? The composition and the craft is far more important to me than "printed with," or "printed on." Especially to the general public.

Their are a lot of people that believe different is better.

I use farts instead of mercury vapor to develop my tin types.

 

[Vaughn]

The image is always the same -- how it is printed and presented is what changes...and that in turn determines how people perceive the image. The material can also change how people perceive the image. The knowledge and preconceptions the viewer brings with them also affects how they perceive an image.

So I would say, "Yes" to your question, except toss out the word 'better' since that word has no meaning in this instance. possibly replace it with the concept that the material helps carry the meaning the artist wishes to convey.

And oak gall was one of the first art materials we had -- pretty neat! It was the source of one of the first inks (5th Century).

I think the development of mass-produced silver gelatin photopaper was a pretty major step in photo evolution, also.

 

[RPC]

My opinion, your opinion.

I say potato, you say potawto.

There is no objective answer.

So you say. I am sure glad that all these years yours has not been the opinion of the movers and shakers in the photographic world.

 

[blockend]

No one used the word "artisinal" until a relative few years ago. It's so overused I could puke. Coming soon to a gas pump near you: artisinal gasoline.

It may be a silly word, but it's an accurate appraisal of the place formally mainstream industries occupy. If you want to use film, you're not going to walk down the high street and pick the prints up at the end of your lunch break. Beer used to be made by mega-corps in breweries that dominated a whole block. Now the stuff you buy in supermarkets probably came from an old cow shed or industrial unit on a trading estate. Music recording headed the same way.

Artisan, boutique, bespoke, lo-fi, call it what you like, film is a medium of the margins. Making pictures with it is a mostly homespun activity.

 

[faberryman]

It may be a silly word, but it's an accurate appraisal of the place formally mainstream industries occupy. If you want to use film, you're not going to walk down the high street and pick the prints up at the end of your lunch break. Beer used to be made by mega-corps in breweries that dominated a whole block. Now the stuff you buy in supermarkets probably came from an old cow shed or industrial unit on a trading estate. Music recording headed the same way.

Artisan, boutique, bespoke, lo-fi, call it what you like, film is a medium of the margins. Making pictures with it is a mostly homespun activity.

I'm not so sure I would call Kodak and Fujifilm artisinal. And film is being processed and prints are being made using the same machines being used years ago. There are just not as many of them. Not much change other than volume.