When will Rodinal go bad?

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I have no reason to doubt all this about oxygen and plastic but that being said my 20+ year old opened bottle mentioned above is white opaque plastic.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

I have no reason to doubt all this about oxygen and plastic but that being said my 20+ year old opened bottle mentioned above is white opaque plastic.

Very well. And if you have to keep it around for another ten years, you just may have to put what remains in amber glass jars. Rodinal is an extreme example, but all developers eventually go bad.

 

[wogster]

I have no reason to doubt all this about oxygen and plastic but that being said my 20+ year old opened bottle mentioned above is white opaque plastic.

I could not tell you, what that white opaque plastic is, it could be oxygen proof. Up until 1985 or so, the engineers were in charge in a lot of companies, then the bean counters started taking over, and if they could use a plastic that didn't protect the product as long, but was 3 cents cheaper per bottle, then that was what happened.

 

[michaelbsc]

I could not tell you, what that white opaque plastic is, it could be oxygen proof. Up until 1985 or so, the engineers were in charge in a lot of companies, then the bean counters started taking over, and if they could use a plastic that didn't protect the product as long, but was 3 cents cheaper per bottle, then that was what happened.

From a bean counter's perspective, it only has to protect the product until the customer gets it home.

There are whole groups of engineers in manufacturing whose only job is to cheapen product production until X% last through the warranty period. Too cheap, and they loose money on warranty. Too good, and they loose money on production costs. We're killing ourselves.

MB

 

[MaximusM3]

I've been using it from a 250ml amber glass bottle that I decanted six months ago. It looks like freshly brewed coffee and still works like new. As far as longevity and value, I don't think there is anything out there that can match Rodinal and HC110.

 

[michaelbsc]

Is Rodinal actually light sensitive, so that low actinic bottles are required? Or just glass with a tight lid?

What component is light sensitive?

 

[wogster]

From a bean counter's perspective, it only has to protect the product until the customer gets it home.

There are whole groups of engineers in manufacturing whose only job is to cheapen product production until X% last through the warranty period. Too cheap, and they loose money on warranty. Too good, and they loose money on production costs. We're killing ourselves.

It's partly the consumers fault, the consumer wants better stuff cheaper, but the company owners are demanding higher and higher annual profits. Something has to give and product quality has given a lot...

 

[michaelbsc]

It's partly the consumers fault, the consumer wants better stuff cheaper, but the company owners are demanding higher and higher annual profits. Something has to give and product quality has given a lot...

But what the consumer gets is "cheaper stuff" not "better stuff cheaper" as you specify.

I'm not even going to get into my rant about how the government/industrial oligarchy has trained us, like sheep to slaughter, to accept this.

 

[Vlad Soare]

When I was 14 I went to a local pharmacy to buy a hypodermic needle. The pharmacist asked what I wanted it for. I explained that Rodinal came with a rubber stopper and that it would keep better of I drew it out through the rubber stopper with the needle. He gave me a bad look and told me that of I didn't get out of the store right away he'd call the police.

So what? What would the police have done if he had called them?

 

[wogster]

But what the consumer gets is "cheaper stuff" not "better stuff cheaper" as you specify.

I'm not even going to get into my rant about how the government/industrial oligarchy has trained us, like sheep to slaughter, to accept this.

Your kinda right, I worded that a little wrong, for a lot of people a cheap retail price is the only thing that is important, although in many cases it isn't actually cheaper, if the way it was made cheaper is to use less expensive materials.

I don't know how this applies to developer bottles, but combination plastics can't always be recycled, and a bottle that is heavier, even if it's only a few grams, can translate into a much higher shipping cost, when near weight limits. There is no legal requirement that you keep developers or any chemical in the original bottle. 4 250ml dark glass bottles is better then a 1L plastic one, if you want the chemicals to last. Actually, I think your best to have 2 bottles that contain 125ml, then 1 more that holds 250ml, and one more that holds 500ml. You pour the 1L from the plastic into the 500ml to full, cap it off, then fill the 250ml to full, one of the 125ml to full, and put the remainder in the last 125ml. When one of the 125ml is empty, you use the other one, when it's empty you pour the 250 into the 125's then when they are empty you transfer the 500....

Yeah it's more work, but it's only developers that need this treatment, all other chemicals are fine in their original plastic bottles....

 

[nworth]

I had a partially used bottle of the Formulary version of Rodinal go bad on me recently. It was about three years old as a solution, although the dry kit was about 20. I have heard of unopened small bottles of the Agfa product lasting 15 years.

Hydroxylamine is a pretty fair anti-oxidant. It is also a developing agent and has a fairly large tendency to produce fog.

 

[michaelbsc]

My real question is whether Rodinol actually needs low actinic bottles. What component is light sensitive?

I have clear glassware coming out my ears.

 

[wogster]

My real question is whether Rodinol actually needs low actinic bottles. What component is light sensitive?

I have clear glassware coming out my ears.

Use the clear if you have it, what I did one time, was get a 4 pack of electrical tape with the different colours, then put bands around the bottles, to keep them separate. So film developer is say blue, paper developer green, film strength fixer is red and paper strength fixer is yellow, stop is black. The important part of this, mark the caps as well, if they look the same.

What I did when I had a home darkroom, is I had a cabinet, for the chemicals, and it was locked when I wasn't using the darkroom, one side had working strength and the other had concentrates, so nothing could ever get mixed up, and they were not regularly exposed to light anyway, just while being used. You only mix up your chemicals once.

I think most of the old timers did it when they were teens, spent a whole day taking pictures of a pretty girl, then carefully spooled the film onto the real, put it in the tank, and poured in fixer Thank goodness the time I did it, I only had a 1 roll tank, and could save the rest of the shoot Not that it mattered, I didn't get the girl anyway <sigh>

 

[Gerald C Koch]

My real question is whether Rodinol actually needs low actinic bottles. What component is light sensitive?

I have clear glassware coming out my ears.

Unless you are setting out the developer in direct sunlight white glass is probably fine. Brown glass bottles are more common for certain things because they are cheaper. Glass as it is commonly made is either brown or green depending on which of certain metal contaminates is present. Ir costs more to first remove these contaminates from the raw glass.

BTW, true low actinic glass is dark red in color and it can be found in certain specialized lab glassware. Regular white glass only transmits UV light in the near UV region. Shorter wavelenght UV is needed to effect the stability of certain chemicals and for this you need fused quartz which transmits these shorter wavelengths..

Of the common developing agents I know from experience that phenidone (and I presume its derivatives) is destroyed by UV light.