When Size Matter... MF and Portability

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 30, 2013

Which model of Rolleiflex did you buy? Depending on the model, the $500 repair bill would be worth it. If you have a 2.8 of just about any flavor, being on the hook for a total of $700 is still a good deal. Even a lot of the 3.5's are worth it. If it's a Rolleicord, just stick it on the bookshelf and let it look pretty.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 30, 2013

illumiquest said:
Get a Hasselblad. Period.

Small, beautifully made, the best lenses in the world

I'm not con vinced of that think my Mamiya 6 lenses clearly havethe edge over my Carl Zeiss lenses. Don't get me wrong Zeiss optics are excellent, but Mamiya hasthe edge inhigher aresolutionin thecenter and the corners at least in m,y simple tests;like to see some Mamiya MTFs to have a betterand more objective comparison.

baachitraka · Nov 30, 2013

That said in one of the test comparing Mamiya, Rollieflex and Hasselblad, Mamiya more or less outperforms the rest. Author was suspecting it may be because of film flatness.

Sirius Glass · Nov 30, 2013

baachitraka said:
That said in one of the test comparing Mamiya, Rollieflex and Hasselblad, Mamiya more or less outperforms the rest. Author was suspecting it may be because of film flatness.

This sounds like a religious argument, such as ala Jonathan Swift which end of the egg does one open?

baachitraka · Nov 30, 2013

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/test/fourcameras.html

RattyMouse · Nov 30, 2013

dodphotography said:
I always tend to a mechanical camera because a mechanical issue can be fixed with more ease, as opposed to an electronic issue that limits who can fix it and increases the price.... Plus I like knowing no matter where I am in any condition my rig will function.

Mechanical parts can fail in extreme cold.

ntenny · Nov 30, 2013

baachitraka said:
http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/MF_testing.html

http://www.hevanet.com/cperez/test/fourcameras.html

I wouldn't summarize those results quite the way you did---to me the big-picture result is that the differences between the cameras are small, even in a tightly controlled test with a lot of attention given to controlling other variables. It certainly speaks well of the Mamiya's performance, but I don't think it really militates for choosing one system over another in terms of image quality, for most practical uses.

To be sure the Mamiya 7 is a wonderful system, and quite portable for its size; I don't mean any disrespect towards it or Chris Perez! But that same article actually tends to convince me that I'm not missing much by carrying around a Rolleiflex.

-NT

Sirius Glass · Nov 30, 2013

RattyMouse said:
Mechanical parts can fail in extreme cold.

Now your desperation is really showing. Generally the human body breaks down from cold before a properly serviced mechanical camera would, and that would be well after the battery ceased working due to hypothermia.

ambaker · Nov 30, 2013

I believe that a couple of spare batteries, in a warm pocket, would cover the cold issue.

But then whether it is mechanical, or electrical, where are you finding a repair person out there in those temperatures?

I have to mail mine off to someone who is working, I believe, in a nice comfy clean room.

Sadly, there is no local repair mechanical or not, here.

RattyMouse · Dec 2, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
Now your desperation is really showing. Generally the human body breaks down from cold before a properly serviced mechanical camera would, and that would be well after the battery ceased working due to hypothermia.

Desperation?? Wow are you deluded. It's a simple fact that mechanical devices can fail in extreme cold weather. Your hysteria does not change this fact.

nathantw · Dec 3, 2013

dodphotography said:
If you loved MF and size were an issue, as well as maintaining a purely mechanical system...

what would your suggestions be?

PS, I am looking to combine an M6 and a MF rig to fit in a Billingham bag and be something that is always by my side.

I haven't posted much and I haven't looked at the responses yet, but I would suggest the Hasselblad system. They're relatively small and weigh as much as a DSLR with a f/1.4 prime lens or fast zoom attached. You can pick up a 500 c/m kit pretty cheap. There are some things you need to look out for, though. The back might have light leaks because they're old, the shutters may be worn in the lenses (easily remedied with another lens), or the inserts might not match the film back (the film won't be as flat as it could be). They're relatively loud when the shutter is tripped so discrete street photography is out.

If you need quiet, though, a leaf shutter is the way to go. I think the Mamiya 6 or the Fuji 690 (I think that's the camera and manufacturer) should work in a pinch. Not sure how much they cost though.

Good luck!

Kyle M. · Dec 4, 2013

The only two cameras I currently own are an RB67 and a M6451000S, I drag along the RB almost everytime I go out and shoot mostly handheld with the multi angle grip. On the rare occasion that I need something lighter I take the 645, regardless of which I take my tripod a Bogen/Manfrotto 3251 is gonna slow me down.

Sirius Glass · Dec 4, 2013

RattyMouse said:
Desperation?? Wow are you deluded. It's a simple fact that mechanical devices can fail in extreme cold weather. Your hysteria does not change this fact.

Your logic was desperate. If the weather is cold enough for a properly maintained mechanical camera to fail, the batteries would have failed long before and your fingers would have dropped off from frostbite. Yes, your logic is both flawed and desperate.

paul ron · Dec 5, 2013

Hahahaha another problem in very cold condition is frozen stiff film putting undue stress on the advancing mechanisms n frozem weak batteries may not transport at all... Your motor drve may seize since it is lubed with oil.

I had a problem with my RB once when camping in minus 10°f, left the camera in my backpack overnight. I tried to advance my film... A mistaske i realized as soon as i tried. No shooting that day.. Besides it would have taken us hours to warm it to the point of no condensation.

Btw a well cared for shutter won't fail because of cold unless it was lubed wrong. Most leaf shutters run dry, so nothing to slow it down.

I can appreciate mechanical over electronic as far as repairs (in my shop) go.. But not as someone might have misconstrued as field service.... Yes your batteries would be dead as your fingers fall off.

Sirius Glass · Dec 6, 2013

paul ron said:
Hahahaha another problem in very cold condition is frozen stiff film putting undue stress on the advancing mechanisms n frozem weak batteries may not transport at all... Your motor drve may seize since it is lubed with oil.

Hence my comments have had the properly maintained phrase. When I am going into cold weather situations I have the equipment CLAed with the lubricants for cold weather. That will not eliminate the problems with film becoming brittle or getting static discharge marks from advancing film too quickly in low humidity cold environments.

spijker · Dec 6, 2013

OK, for all those people that still do not believe in working batteries in cold temperatures, read this paper on Energizer lithium batteries that are readily available in stores. Yes, performance is less at -20°C but these batteries are still far from dead at that temperature.

This is type of battery that I use in my film cameras. The operating range is specified as -40°C to +60°C (-40°F to 140°F). -40°C is probably pushing it for the winder (high current) but the lightmeter and shutter should be fine. But I will certainly not go out for photography at -40°C (excl. windchill) so that's not an issue.

paul ron · Dec 6, 2013

Yes properly maintained camers is the key... Not many people have their equipment serviced anymore. They like to wait till it drops dead, then justify it was a piece of junk n buy another ab-used camera.

Btw batteries have come a long way with lithion. They are real preformers. But other limitations contribute in cold conditions. ... Motors in auto focus, film transport motors, relays... Too many parts that can't run dry.

I wonder what film was used on the moon? I read an article from a polar expedition that had serious problems with brittle film breaking while advancing frames. The camera itself had no problems at all.

hsandler · Dec 6, 2013

I think the main problem with mechanical cameras in the cold is not seizing, but slowing. I had an autocord tnat did that. if you couple that with no availability of a light meter in our "no battery" thought experiment, it becomes hit and miss what you will get. I like an electronic shutter because the springs are always releasing at maximum tension, so the slower speeds stay accurate in the cold. if the battery was really a problem, i could keep a warm spare in my inside pocket, but I have left the Bronica and its silver oxide battery in my car overnight at -12c and no problem shooting in the morning.

gone · Dec 6, 2013

An M6 is quite small (depending on which lens you have on it), so I would continue that theme and buy a nice folder. Shoot, put the folder in a pocket, sling the M6 on a strap, and nix the side bag. I never understood those bags anyway. They just scream "expensive yuppie camera inside". I know that a lot of people use old diaper bags to disguise things, but there's still the access issue. By the time I fumble a camera out of a side bag my shot is long gone. I have photos from a Voigtlander folder w/ a Heliar lens that look as good as shots from a Rolleiflex w/ a Planar. Really. Best dang mf lenses ever made.

lxdude · Dec 6, 2013

Sirius Glass said:
That will not eliminate the problems with film becoming brittle or getting static discharge marks from advancing film too quickly in low humidity cold environments.

That is a very real problem. Best not to use a motor drive unless you have one with the slooow advance mode.

Sirius Glass · Dec 6, 2013

momus said:
I know that a lot of people use old diaper bags to disguise things, but there's still the access issue. By the time I fumble a camera out of a side bag my shot is long gone.

When it comes to using old diaper bags, it Depends!

paul ron · Dec 6, 2013

Hahahaha tff!

markbarendt · Dec 7, 2013

lxdude said:
MURDER!!! When I saw that my blood ran cold!

It had to have been a digiphile. Not even the most rabid owner of a Swedish or German film camera would do something like this!

The detestable sociopath never even used the camera he killed. His scrawny arms are proof enough of that.

The murderer's time will come. He will be caught and sentenced to having an RB 67 dropped on his head from a distance of one inch, and that will be the last of him.

I just hope Kubach never has to see what I just witnessed.

+1

That video does beg the question of how a Hassy would stand up?

iamzip · Dec 7, 2013

If you are willing to work within the limitations, an old folder can produce very good quality negs, and they are cheap enough you can just pick one up to try it out. Personally I would love the modern Fuji/Voigtlander folder, but I have never tried it as I can't afford it. Another option to consider is the Fuji GA645 - it is not mechanical, in fact, it is very much like a big point and shoot. But it is very high quality, produces very high quality negs, is satisfying to use, and quite compact and lightweight.

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Neil Poulsen · Dec 7, 2013

It can be expensive, but you might consider a 6x9 view camera. The camera and lenses aren't nearly as heavy, and view cameras offer movements.

When Size Matter... MF and Portability

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