When old shutter does not work beyond 1/2 sec..?

[BrianShaw]

I leave that to you armatures.

I, for one, won’t get wound up over that opinion! Ha ha ha.

 

[BrianShaw]

Ah! Something I now can have an opinion on! Having serviced three separate Mamiya TLR lenses, I see the chance as 50/50. If the problem is with sticky shutter blades, you're right. But if the problem lies in the shutter timing mechanism, B will work just fine.

Unless the levers are just as dirty or dried out as the escapement. So 50/50 is about right in both possibilities!

 

[cmacd123]

well, the SV manuals from Prontor are here: https://learncamerarepair.com/productlist.php?category=2&secondary=21

typically speeds below 1/30 (or 1/25 as the case might be) are handled by an escapement mechanism, somewhat like a watch. if everything else works, the escapement is generally a module, and one would remove it from the shutter and dunk it in an ultrasonic Cleaner with some Watch Cleaning solution. Dry it careful (gentle compressed air) and lightly lubricate it with Moly Powder.

yes, it is similar to watch repair, and yes you will likely have to remove a few parts to get to the escapement.

some folks report success with Naptha, or other solvent, BUT the focus mount may have some grease, and the solvent will extract some oil from the grease, and the excerpt from the manual above warns that Oil will likely gum up the shutter blades. ANYTHING besides some mo;y or graphite powder will Gum up the shutter blades.

the learn camera repair site that I linked the manuals from above has a bunch of lessons on overhauling shutters. Starting with an Instamatic 100. and working up to the focal plane shutters in cameras like the Spotmatic. it is recommended that you try to find examples of the various shutters mentioned which is generaly not too hard,and actually go through the exercises.

 

[Tel]

What cmacd said. I've tried flushing a shutter with lighter fluid (several times) in the past and found that it never worked long-term. The right thing to do is to figure out how the shutter works, carefully remove all or part of the mechanism and clean that separately before reassembling. It's tedious and requires patience, but it works. Learn Camera Repair is a gold mine of information and some (not all) of the youtube videos can be very helpful. Chris Sherlock's CLA of a Compur shutter is wonderful, IMHO.

 

[David Lyga]

I, for one, won’t get wound up over that opinion! Ha ha ha.

Brian, your humor is of an exceptionally refined nature.

But, seriously, lighter fluid is probably the best solvent to be used for cleaning gears. Remember, if you were a tiny insect, a tiny bit of dried oil would seem like a boulder does to us humans. Lighter fluid turns that debris into liquid and it falls to the wayside, hopefully out of the camera. It has not failed me in decades and, maybe I still am an amateur, but one with lots of experience. - David Lyga

 

[titrisol]

What do you use to dissolve the old grease then?
Alcohol?
I just want to learn, thanks

HOWEVER I will not use lighter fluid or service anything in which lighter fluid has been used.
I leave that to you armatures.

Not all makes of shutters were designed to run dry. Ilex and Prontor are the only two I know of.

 

[BrianShaw]

When using any solvent for a “flushcleaning” it is important to attempts as much as possible the resultant fluid. Simply squirting it into a shutter may just move it. Flushing so it flows out of the shutter increases the potential effectiveness. It can work but never quite as good as a real overhaul involving teardown, thourough cleaning, and proper lubrication.

 

[shutterfinger]

What do you use to dissolve the old grease then?

90% Isopropyl Alcohol in an Ultrasonic cleaner, CRC QD Contact Cleaner. https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-11-oz-QD-Electronic-Cleaner-05103/205021975
Pure Naphtha will damage some parts in some shutters. Amateur urine aka lighter fluid is 98% naphtha with other ingredients for burning efficiency. http://doryventures.scene7.com/is/content/DoryVentures/Ronson/Website/Servicing/2018MSDSRonsonol.pdf

 

[titrisol]

Good to know, thanks
Ronsonol has been the stuff I was told to use years ago, and has helped me flush a few shutters
I have also used electronic contact cleaner sometimes.

 

[titrisol]

Another question, what do you use to loosen lens elements in cameras such as the Ansco Speedex?
the front element is not focusing and that is also "gummed" up old grease?
Thanks

90% Isopropyl Alcohol in an Ultrasonic cleaner, CRC QD Contact Cleaner. https://www.homedepot.com/p/CRC-11-oz-QD-Electronic-Cleaner-05103/205021975
Pure Naphtha will damage some parts in some shutters. Amateur urine aka lighter fluid is 98% naphtha with other ingredients for burning efficiency. http://doryventures.scene7.com/is/content/DoryVentures/Ronson/Website/Servicing/2018MSDSRonsonol.pdf

 

[shutterfinger]

Another question, what do you use to loosen lens elements in cameras such as the Ansco Speedex?

Please post a picture of the camera front showing all of the shutter and lens.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Sounds like a case of Agfa grease. That stuff hardens up like epoxy.

 

[removed account4]

paper negatives, hand coated glass plates, or retina prints...

 

[Kino]

I have cleaned 5 Agfa Karat variants, all had seized lenses of varying degrees, and found the best way to get the lens loose enough to remove was to turn a hair dryer on the lens and get it good and hot. I do this by blowing the heated air across the lens at right angles to the lens board/camera front, so that just the lens Barrel/shutter is getting warmed.

Wear gloves, use common sense and let it heat-soak for a few minutes before attempting to turn the barrel.

You still have to take it out and clean the threads, but it won't fight as bad when heated.

 

[titrisol]

Sounds like a case of Agfa grease. That stuff hardens up like epoxy.

Xactly!
I have cleaned a few with patience, and a hair dryer (heat/cool cycles) but this one if too stubborn

This Speedex shutter is fine, diaphragm is dry and clean but focus was frozen; so I looked at it, and was able to unscrew the 2 front elements of the Agnar (triplet) but the focusing element is glued solid

 

[shutterfinger]

Try applying Acetone to the threads and allow it to soak in.

 

[shutterfinger]

In post #19 I posted the statement from the service manual that states not to use oil or grease in the shutter.
This EV coupled SVS runs with a small drop of oil on the speed delay gear shafts and the self timer gear shafts. A touch of grease on the self timer actuating lever joint and the main setting drive at the speed timer makes the shutter operate when it would not dry.

 

[Kino]

Xactly!
I have cleaned a few with patience, and a hair dryer (heat/cool cycles) but this one if too stubborn

This Speedex shutter is fine, diaphragm is dry and clean but focus was frozen; so I looked at it, and was able to unscrew the 2 front elements of the Agnar (triplet) but the focusing element is glued solid

OK. Drastic measures... Get a few drops of penetrating oil and put it on the threads. It will have to sit for at least a day. This works when other solvents won't, but don't douse it!

When acetone, alcohol, Naptha and even Xylene won't work, I have found that PB Blaster will.

 

[titrisol]

It was 24h in acetone, and I just heated it with a hair dryer, got it quite warm and no budge
Liquid Wrench it is

 

[Kino]

I had to soak one camera for 3 days; putting a drop or two in each day and trying it. Was about to throw it in the trash but decided to give it one last hard turn by hand and it just barely moved. From there, the grease crumbled as I worked it back and forth. That green grease is like concrete...

Here's a couple of the "Green Grease" monsters. All happy now...

 

[Donald Qualls]

Liquid Wrench is not as effective (in my experience) as PB'Laster The real stuff smells like turpentine (probably has a good bit of that in it). I've seen it free things that laughed at Liquid Wrench and other penetrants. What you need is two things: penetration, and solvent action. PB'Laster has both in spades.

 

[Kino]

Liquid Wrench is not as effective (in my experience) as PB'Laster The real stuff smells like turpentine (probably has a good bit of that in it). I've seen it free things that laughed at Liquid Wrench and other penetrants. What you need is two things: penetration, and solvent action. PB'Laster has both in spades.

Yeah, I theorized that all the other solvents were doing was further dehydrating the concrete-like grease; it needed the opposite, so I tried PB and it worked.

 

[titrisol]

I'll wait until the morning to get some... I'm frustrated at the JBWeld grease that was used

I'll wait until next week .. grumble grumble,,,,

 

[Kino]

I'll wait until the morning to get some... I'm frustrated at the JBWeld grease that was used

Yeah, learn to walk away or how to sweep up bits of camera and patch sheetrock if you don't!

 

[titrisol]

Whichever company made that green stuff deserves to burn in hell!!!
grrrrrr
Still not budging