When did shutter speeds move from 1/25, 1/50, etc.. to 1/30, 1/60...?

jay moussy · Aug 31, 2022

A picture of a Pronto shutter on 1940(?) folder, shows speed range as 1/25, 1/50, etc. and later, the range was changed to the familiar 1/30, 1/60, etc.

When did that industry change occur?

mshchem · Aug 31, 2022

Leica referred to Continental vs American. I don't know if this is true. Happened after WWII as far as Leica goes.

xkaes · Aug 31, 2022

It was February 30, 1946 at 7:39 PM.

ags2mikon · Aug 31, 2022

xkaes said:
It was February 30, 1946 at 7:39 PM.

No it was not! In 1952 my father bought a new Zenobia 6x45 folder in Japan and it has the old 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500 shutter speeds. So maybe February 30, 1956 at 7:39 pm.

BrianShaw · Aug 31, 2022

7:62 PM

Bill Burk · Aug 31, 2022

I think the pattern emerged as cameras started having the full range of 1 second to 1/1000.

When a camera only covers 1/25 up to 1/200 the old set is fine.

mshchem · Sep 1, 2022

I'm looking at my Leica Morgan and Morgan. ASA standard shutter speeds of 1/25, 1/50, 1/75, 1/100, 1/200, 1/500 and 1/1000 were adopted with the Red Dial Leica IIIf this was early 50's

The Leica M cameras (and the IIIg screw mount) cameras have the familiar 30,60,125,250,500,1000th mid 50's

Moose22 · Sep 1, 2022

mshchem said:
I'm looking at my Leica Morgan and Morgan. ASA standard shutter speeds of 1/25, 1/50, 1/75, 1/100, 1/200, 1/500 and 1/1000 were adopted with the Red Dial Leica IIIf this was early 50's

The Leica M cameras (and the IIIg screw mount) cameras have the familiar 30,60,125,250,500,1000th mid 50's

Looking at my M3 right now.

5 - 10 - 25 - 50 - 100 - 250 - 500 - 1000

jay moussy · Sep 1, 2022

The non-Leica people are staying away from this thread, it seems...

Actually Wikipedia says the standardization to a single speed range followed the standardization of aperture numbers:

Shutter speed - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It would be interesting to see examples of this change within a maker's product line, with dates.

AgX · Sep 1, 2022

It seems to have been in 1954 as prerequisite for the introduction of the Lichtwert LW (EV).

AgX · Sep 1, 2022

The Gossen Sixtomat X3 introduced in 1954 has got two time scales.
In its primary version it got the two different times-series. Later both scales were identical...

alanrockwood · Sep 1, 2022

Exakta IIa, which I believe was made between 1956 and 1963, had the following shutter speeds: 1/1000, 1/500, 1/250, 1/100, 1/50. 1/25, 1/5, 1/2, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 12 seconds.

Note that 1/10 is missing from the series. I don't know why, but I suppose it was probably due to an engineering challenge.

Donald Qualls · Sep 1, 2022

My 1955 Kiev 2 (which I understand to be a pretty faithful copy of a pre-War Contax II) has 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 50, 125, 250, 500, 1250. I've got leaf shutters from the 1950s that have the 10, 25, 50, 100 progression. Then again, the focal plane shutter in my 1940-ish Anniversary Speed Graphic has LOTS of speeds, from around 1/8 up to 1/1000 with weird steps (determined by drive spring tension and slit selection, of course).

Helios 1984 · Sep 1, 2022

jay moussy said:
A picture of a Pronto shutter on 1940(?) folder, shows speed range as 1/25, 1/50, etc. and later, the range was changed to the familiar 1/30, 1/60, etc.

When did that industry change occur?

Hi Jay,

based on observations, we can safely say that the change occurred gradually from the early 50s to the early 60s.

Here’s a few time markers that I found:

1953 - Zeiss Ikon releases the Contaflex I with a Synchro-Compur which uses the old speed scale (1-2-5-10-20-50-100 etc). Soon after, the camera gets updated with a shutter that uses the new speed scale ( 1-2-4-8-15-30-60-125 etc).

1954 - The IVSB2 is introduced to the market with Canon’s new shutter which uses the new speed scale.

1957 - Topcon releases the 35-L which is equipped with a Seikosha MXL that uses the old speed scale. A few months later, the Topcon R gets released with a shutter that uses the new speed scale.

gone · Sep 1, 2022

It doesn't matter. If it runs at half of any of those speeds, just be grateful.

jay moussy · Sep 1, 2022

momus said:
It doesn't matter. If it runs at half of any of those speeds, just be grateful.

I hear you. I will know when my Balda, model unknown, will arrive next week.

By the way, I will have to make sure don't goof the shutter, cocking, release on same lever?

Cholentpot · Sep 1, 2022

By the time the late 60's rolled around most cameras seem to have switched. My cameras from the 50's and early 60's are all over the place.

ags2mikon · Sep 1, 2022

Yep. Just what Cholentpot said. ^ Looking at all my old junk the 1950-1960 decade is when it changed. Of course now no telling what the true speeds are. Unless you have a way to test and record you are guessing.

Cholentpot · Sep 1, 2022

Looking over my SLRs. All of them have 30,60 etc. From my oldest which is a Nikon F and on. The Signet 35 has the 25,50 but the Retina has 30,60. My TLRs Rolliecord, Yashica Mat, A, Richorflex are 25,50. Mamiya C3 and C33 are 30,60 as is The Bronica S2 and Mamiya M645. My Argus C3 copies have both a 50,30 and a 50,25. Looking over my cameras I have relatively few that are 25,50.

mrosenlof · Sep 1, 2022

The first M3s had the old sequence. The iiiG of 1957 had the new sequence.

JPD · Sep 1, 2022

jay moussy said:
I hear you. I will know when my Balda, model unknown, will arrive next week.

By the way, I will have to make sure don't goof the shutter, cocking, release on same lever?

Yes, it's a self-cocking shutter. Be careful with the self-timer, if it's bad it will block the shutter.

Sirius Glass · Sep 1, 2022

My Hasselblad use the 1/30 and 1/60 and they were built in the 1980's and 1990's.

Huss · Sep 1, 2022

Moose22 said:
Looking at my M3 right now.

5 - 10 - 25 - 50 - 100 - 250 - 500 - 1000

Yup, same on my recent M3 DS. My M3 SS has the current speed settings.

It is interesting though that there are people who insist on the importance of 'exactly right' exposures, even though in reality that is purely hypothetical.
Because trying to transfer those settings to your camera, does not mean that will be those exact settings. Either by not having those settings, or the fact that, for example, 1.8 on your lens may actually be 1.9 or 2.1, or 1/250 on your shutter speed dial may actually be 1/190 etc.
And that's not even taking into account vagaries in film processing!

It's amazing we get any images at all!

Cholentpot · Sep 1, 2022

Huss said:
Yup, same on my recent M3 DS. My M3 SS has the current speed settings.

It is interesting though that there are people who insist on the importance of 'exactly right' exposures, even though in reality that is purely hypothetical.
Because trying to transfer those settings to your camera, does not mean that will be those exact settings. Either by not having those settings, or the fact that, for example, 1.8 on your lens may actually be 1.9 or 2.1, or 1/250 on your shutter speed dial may actually be 1/190 etc.
And that's not even taking into account vagaries in film processing!

It's amazing we get any images at all!

Or I just blame the camera and lens when things don't work out.

Chan Tran · Sep 1, 2022

Bill Burk said:
I think the pattern emerged as cameras started having the full range of 1 second to 1/1000.

When a camera only covers 1/25 up to 1/200 the old set is fine.

With the advance of shutter less camera which the shutter is purely electronic it can be very precise so the series should be changed to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192 so they are exactly 1 stop apart.

When did shutter speeds move from 1/25, 1/50, etc.. to 1/30, 1/60...?

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