When did shutter speeds move from 1/25, 1/50, etc.. to 1/30, 1/60...?

[jay moussy]

A picture of a Pronto shutter on 1940(?) folder, shows speed range as 1/25, 1/50, etc. and later, the range was changed to the familiar 1/30, 1/60, etc.

When did that industry change occur?

 

[mshchem]

Leica referred to Continental vs American. I don't know if this is true. Happened after WWII as far as Leica goes.

 

[xkaes]

It was February 30, 1946 at 7:39 PM.

 

[ags2mikon]

It was February 30, 1946 at 7:39 PM.

No it was not! In 1952 my father bought a new Zenobia 6x45 folder in Japan and it has the old 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 50, 100, 250, 500 shutter speeds. So maybe February 30, 1956 at 7:39 pm.

 

[BrianShaw]

7:62 PM

 

[Bill Burk]

I think the pattern emerged as cameras started having the full range of 1 second to 1/1000.

When a camera only covers 1/25 up to 1/200 the old set is fine.

 

[mshchem]

I'm looking at my Leica Morgan and Morgan. ASA standard shutter speeds of 1/25, 1/50, 1/75, 1/100, 1/200, 1/500 and 1/1000 were adopted with the Red Dial Leica IIIf this was early 50's

The Leica M cameras (and the IIIg screw mount) cameras have the familiar 30,60,125,250,500,1000th mid 50's

 

[Moose22]

I'm looking at my Leica Morgan and Morgan. ASA standard shutter speeds of 1/25, 1/50, 1/75, 1/100, 1/200, 1/500 and 1/1000 were adopted with the Red Dial Leica IIIf this was early 50's

The Leica M cameras (and the IIIg screw mount) cameras have the familiar 30,60,125,250,500,1000th mid 50's

Looking at my M3 right now.

5 - 10 - 25 - 50 - 100 - 250 - 500 - 1000

 

[jay moussy]

The non-Leica people are staying away from this thread, it seems...

Actually Wikipedia says the standardization to a single speed range followed the standardization of aperture numbers:

Shutter speed - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It would be interesting to see examples of this change within a maker's product line, with dates.

 

[AgX]

It seems to have been in 1954 as prerequisite for the introduction of the Lichtwert LW (EV).

 

[AgX]

The Gossen Sixtomat X3 introduced in 1954 has got two time scales.
In its primary version it got the two different times-series. Later both scales were identical...

 

[alanrockwood]

Exakta IIa, which I believe was made between 1956 and 1963, had the following shutter speeds: 1/1000, 1/500, 1/250, 1/100, 1/50. 1/25, 1/5, 1/2, 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, 12 seconds.

Note that 1/10 is missing from the series. I don't know why, but I suppose it was probably due to an engineering challenge.

 

[Donald Qualls]

My 1955 Kiev 2 (which I understand to be a pretty faithful copy of a pre-War Contax II) has 1, 2, 5, 10, 25, 50, 125, 250, 500, 1250. I've got leaf shutters from the 1950s that have the 10, 25, 50, 100 progression. Then again, the focal plane shutter in my 1940-ish Anniversary Speed Graphic has LOTS of speeds, from around 1/8 up to 1/1000 with weird steps (determined by drive spring tension and slit selection, of course).

 

[Helios 1984]

A picture of a Pronto shutter on 1940(?) folder, shows speed range as 1/25, 1/50, etc. and later, the range was changed to the familiar 1/30, 1/60, etc.

When did that industry change occur?

Hi Jay,

based on observations, we can safely say that the change occurred gradually from the early 50s to the early 60s.

Here’s a few time markers that I found:

1953 - Zeiss Ikon releases the Contaflex I with a Synchro-Compur which uses the old speed scale (1-2-5-10-20-50-100 etc). Soon after, the camera gets updated with a shutter that uses the new speed scale ( 1-2-4-8-15-30-60-125 etc).

1954 - The IVSB2 is introduced to the market with Canon’s new shutter which uses the new speed scale.

1957 - Topcon releases the 35-L which is equipped with a Seikosha MXL that uses the old speed scale. A few months later, the Topcon R gets released with a shutter that uses the new speed scale.

 

[gone]

It doesn't matter. If it runs at half of any of those speeds, just be grateful.

 

[jay moussy]

It doesn't matter. If it runs at half of any of those speeds, just be grateful.

I hear you. I will know when my Balda, model unknown, will arrive next week.





By the way, I will have to make sure don't goof the shutter, cocking, release on same lever?

 

[Cholentpot]

By the time the late 60's rolled around most cameras seem to have switched. My cameras from the 50's and early 60's are all over the place.

 

[ags2mikon]

Yep. Just what Cholentpot said. ^ Looking at all my old junk the 1950-1960 decade is when it changed. Of course now no telling what the true speeds are. Unless you have a way to test and record you are guessing.

 

[Cholentpot]

Looking over my SLRs. All of them have 30,60 etc. From my oldest which is a Nikon F and on. The Signet 35 has the 25,50 but the Retina has 30,60. My TLRs Rolliecord, Yashica Mat, A, Richorflex are 25,50. Mamiya C3 and C33 are 30,60 as is The Bronica S2 and Mamiya M645. My Argus C3 copies have both a 50,30 and a 50,25. Looking over my cameras I have relatively few that are 25,50.

 

[mrosenlof]

The first M3s had the old sequence. The iiiG of 1957 had the new sequence.

 

[JPD]

I hear you. I will know when my Balda, model unknown, will arrive next week.

By the way, I will have to make sure don't goof the shutter, cocking, release on same lever?

Yes, it's a self-cocking shutter. Be careful with the self-timer, if it's bad it will block the shutter.

 

[Sirius Glass]

My Hasselblad use the 1/30 and 1/60 and they were built in the 1980's and 1990's.

 

[Huss]

Looking at my M3 right now.

5 - 10 - 25 - 50 - 100 - 250 - 500 - 1000

Yup, same on my recent M3 DS. My M3 SS has the current speed settings.

It is interesting though that there are people who insist on the importance of 'exactly right' exposures, even though in reality that is purely hypothetical.
Because trying to transfer those settings to your camera, does not mean that will be those exact settings. Either by not having those settings, or the fact that, for example, 1.8 on your lens may actually be 1.9 or 2.1, or 1/250 on your shutter speed dial may actually be 1/190 etc.
And that's not even taking into account vagaries in film processing!

It's amazing we get any images at all!

 

[Cholentpot]

Yup, same on my recent M3 DS. My M3 SS has the current speed settings.

It is interesting though that there are people who insist on the importance of 'exactly right' exposures, even though in reality that is purely hypothetical.
Because trying to transfer those settings to your camera, does not mean that will be those exact settings. Either by not having those settings, or the fact that, for example, 1.8 on your lens may actually be 1.9 or 2.1, or 1/250 on your shutter speed dial may actually be 1/190 etc.
And that's not even taking into account vagaries in film processing!

It's amazing we get any images at all!

Or I just blame the camera and lens when things don't work out.

 

[Chan Tran]

I think the pattern emerged as cameras started having the full range of 1 second to 1/1000.

When a camera only covers 1/25 up to 1/200 the old set is fine.

With the advance of shutter less camera which the shutter is purely electronic it can be very precise so the series should be changed to 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048, 4096, 8192 so they are exactly 1 stop apart.