What's your latest new old camera ? (Part 2)

Theo Sulphate · Jun 3, 2016

Even the lens hood looks well designed.

AgX · Jun 4, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Even the lens hood looks well designed.

It reminds me of the design of the Werra lens hoods.

cuthbert · Jun 4, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Even the lens hood looks well designed.

The hood are enormous and I think they were designed for the previous generations Prakticas, on the B series they look goofy especially with the new BX lenses that are even smaller than the first generation (and they lack the close focus capabilities of the old Pentacon lenses).

I think I'll use the hood of the Pentax M 85mm that has the same outer diameter of the lens.

John_Nikon_F · Jun 5, 2016

Just won a black Nikomat FT (not FTn). Rather hard to find here in the states. Chrome bodies are common. Black Nikkormat FT bodies are uncommon - only seen one in the flesh (belonged to a family friend many years ago). $28.50, shipped.

Also received the F4E today. Been modified a bit. Vertical shutter release is bypassed, there's a connector added to the back of the MB-23 next to the remote terminal, and the diopter adjustment has been removed. So, still need to get a DP-20. At least, this one is useable.

-J

cuthbert · Jun 5, 2016

John_Nikon_F said:
Just won a black Nikomat FT (not FTn). Rather hard to find here in the states. Chrome bodies are common. Black Nikkormat FT bodies are uncommon - only seen one in the flesh (belonged to a family friend many years ago). $28.50, shipped.

Also received the F4E today. Been modified a bit. Vertical shutter release is bypassed, there's a connector added to the back of the MB-23 next to the remote terminal, and the diopter adjustment has been removed. So, still need to get a DP-20. At least, this one is useable.

-J

You never get tired of Nikon F bodies?

Try a Soviet F body like a Kiev 17 or even better a 20!

Theo Sulphate · Jun 5, 2016

A few years ago I missed a chance to get a Kiev 88. It was beautiful and appeared very well made. It had a TTL prism that was brilliant - actually the brightest medium format prism I've ever seen. Such a big image - it was an experience like looking through an OM-1 for the first time. Just wow. It had what appeared to be a gold foil rear shutter - which sounded fantastic. I should've bought it for just the sound alone. The lens was a very solid-looking 80/2.8. That kit, body, prism, lens, back, sold for about $250. At the time, I felt I didn't need another medium format camera (which was true), but it seemed like a well built rugged outfit for little money.

I know these are still serviced and offered with custom features in Ukraine.

Theo Sulphate · Jun 5, 2016

Early model FM with 50/1.2 AI. This complements my late model FM with 85/2 AIS.

On the early FM's, I like being able to trip the shutter with the wind lever tucked in. However, I prefer the Nikkormats exposure meter needle display over the FM's LEDs.

aiborshiuan · Jun 5, 2016

Sinar Norma. Suits me just fine.

cuthbert · Jun 5, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
A few years ago I missed a chance to get a Kiev 88. It was beautiful and appeared very well made. It had a TTL prism that was brilliant - actually the brightest medium format prism I've ever seen. Such a big image - it was an experience like looking through an OM-1 for the first time. Just wow. It had what appeared to be a gold foil rear shutter - which sounded fantastic. I should've bought it for just the sound alone. The lens was a very solid-looking 80/2.8. That kit, body, prism, lens, back, sold for about $250. At the time, I felt I didn't need another medium format camera (which was true), but it seemed like a well built rugged outfit for little money.

I know these are still serviced and offered with custom features in Ukraine.

I've heard the metal foil shutter is the source of most of the problems of the Kiev 88, right now Kiev Arsenal is dead but Arax and Hartblei still offer custom made 88s, they also usually replace the metal shutter with a cloth one, add MLU, a TTL spotmeter and the bayonet in common with the Pentacon 6 so you can use CZJ too.

http://araxfoto.com/cameras/arax-cm/

Sometimes I think about getting one...they also offer the strange leathers you might think about on a camera.

Theo Sulphate said:
Early model FM with 50/1.2 AI. This complements my late model FM with 85/2 AIS.

View attachment 158415

On the early FM's, I like being able to trip the shutter with the wind lever tucked in. However, I prefer the Nikkormats exposure meter needle display over the FM's LEDs.

This look like the one I bought in London in 2013 for £30 including an AI'd Nikkor S-C 50mm f1.4. It was the first serious SLR I bought since I restart shooting, and it's a great camera, I can't see why people prefer Nikkormats, when I got mine for basically free in comparison to the FM it felt big, heavy and clunkier than a Praktica.

Even the Kiev 17 is a more refined design!

onre · Jun 6, 2016

I've pretty much decided to buy the Arax-CM kit. It would be my second new camera ever.

JHG · Jun 6, 2016

Minolta CLE with Leica 40mm F/2 just about perfect!

Theo Sulphate · Jun 6, 2016

cuthbert said:
...I can't see why people prefer Nikkormats...

Two reasons why I like my FT2: (1) the analog meter needle and (2) its ability to meter pre-AI lenses wide open. I even like the aperture ring twist ritual when mounting a pre-AI lens.

JW PHOTO · Jun 6, 2016

Theo Sulphate said:
Two reasons why I like my FT2: (1) the analog meter needle and (2) its ability to meter pre-AI lenses wide open. I even like the aperture ring twist ritual when mounting a pre-AI lens.

Should read three reasons..................................................................like it uses a readily available battery of the 1.5 Volt variety.

John_Nikon_F · Jun 6, 2016

JW PHOTO said:
Should read three reasons..................................................................like it uses a readily available battery of the 1.5 Volt variety.

Should read four reasons............................................................................................Mirror lockup.

BTW: there's better vibration damping in the Nikkormat FT series body compared to the FM. The extra weight helps. Compared my Nikomat FTn to an FM that I had a couple weeks ago. The FTn felt rather smooth in operation, even though it sounded like a 1960s camera and had the two stage shutter release action. The FM fired at the same speed felt like it was going to jump out of my hands. The FM2n and FE2, while louder than either, do seem to be a bit smoother than the FM/FE bodies.

With respect to russian cameras, no interest. Want something that, if it breaks, I can go into a shop and have someone work on it without them turning me away. Luckily, Nikons are usually pretty reliable, like most mainstream Japanese cameras. Plus, with the Nikkormat series, it's not like a replacement body is expensive, if it turns out that one is a dud.

-J

JW PHOTO · Jun 6, 2016

John_Nikon_F said:
Should read four reasons............................................................................................Mirror lockup.

BTW: there's better vibration damping in the Nikkormat FT series body compared to the FM. The extra weight helps. Compared my Nikomat FTn to an FM that I had a couple weeks ago. The FTn felt rather smooth in operation, even though it sounded like a 1960s camera and had the two stage shutter release action. The FM fired at the same speed felt like it was going to jump out of my hands. The FM2n and FE2, while louder than either, do seem to be a bit smoother than the FM/FE bodies.

With respect to russian cameras, no interest. Want something that, if it breaks, I can go into a shop and have someone work on it without them turning me away. Luckily, Nikons are usually pretty reliable, like most mainstream Japanese cameras. Plus, with the Nikkormat series, it's not like a replacement body is expensive, if it turns out that one is a dud.

-J

Yes, mirror lockup is nice and easy to use on the Nikkormats. I like my mint FT3, but the FT2 is my favorite user Nikkormat and has no problem taking all the Nikkor lenses I have. The FE2 had the best mirror dampening system of any camera I have owned and was also very reliable. At least it was for me anyway. I used the FE2 as my personal camera and to shoot wedding receptions when I didn't need the quality of my Hasselblad.

John_Nikon_F · Jun 7, 2016

JW PHOTO said:
Yes, mirror lockup is nice and easy to use on the Nikkormats. I like my mint FT3, but the FT2 is my favorite user Nikkormat and has no problem taking all the Nikkor lenses I have. The FE2 had the best mirror dampening system of any camera I have owned and was also very reliable. At least it was for me anyway. I used the FE2 as my personal camera and to shoot wedding receptions when I didn't need the quality of my Hasselblad.

Agreed. I actually just switched from my project Nikomat FTn to a Nikkormat FT2 that came from KEH today. $19.50, plus shipping. Meter works very well. Only slight jumpiness if I bump the shutter speed ring. I'll probably have it serviced and a J screen installed to make it more useable with my 300/4.5 that causes split-image rangefinder blackout on the K and P screens. Yes, the FM2n and FE2 are well-damped. That said, in a quiet room, it could probably wake the dead with the *clack* from the shutter and mirror box...

-J

CMoore · Jun 7, 2016

Is the general consensus (just judging from a few posts here) that the Nikkormats are more preferred than the FM.?
Do they have to be half-cocked to function...like the FM does.?

cuthbert · Jun 7, 2016

CMoore said:
Is the general consensus (just judging from a few posts here) that the Nikkormats are more preferred than the FM.?
Do they have to be half-cocked to function...like the FM does.?

You mean you had to pull the lever out to activate the meter? I think they need to.

And my opinion is that the FM is a much better camera, the prices on the market confirm that, I don't get the point of the Nikkormat, it's as big and heavy as a F2 without the advantages of the F2, while the FM is a tiny and nimble camera very good for street photography.

Theo Sulphate · Jun 7, 2016

CMoore said:
Is the general consensus ... that the Nikkormats are more preferred than the FM.?
Do they have to be half-cocked to function...like the FM does.?

My Nikkormat FT2 and the early FM's (identified by a knurled ring around the shutter release) can have the wind lever tucked in to release the shutter, but pulled out to activate the meter. I believe this was true of other Nikkormats as well.

The later FM's need the wind lever out to trip the shutter or to meter.

For the reasons given in my earlier post, I prefer the Nikkormat FT2 to the FM's. It's just a personal preference. I like the heft as well. I say this as an owner of other Nikons: an F, many F2's, F3/T's, F4s's, and an FM3a.

The FM3a itself is a gem.

JW PHOTO · Jun 7, 2016

John_Nikon_F said:
Agreed. I actually just switched from my project Nikomat FTn to a Nikkormat FT2 that came from KEH today. $19.50, plus shipping. Meter works very well. Only slight jumpiness if I bump the shutter speed ring. I'll probably have it serviced and a J screen installed to make it more useable with my 300/4.5 that causes split-image rangefinder blackout on the K and P screens. Yes, the FM2n and FE2 are well-damped. That said, in a quiet room, it could probably wake the dead with the *clack* from the shutter and mirror box...

-J

Yes, I never said they were silent that's for sure, but not any worse than many others at the time. If I remember right the FE2 had a built-in mirror brake that really almost eliminated camera vibration from mirror slap. I believe I saw it in their ad and also think I remember Modern or Popular Photography doing a test of the Nikon FE2, for vibration, sitting on a sponge or something. It was as good as most cameras with the mirror locked up. I'm going to try a search for the article and will post if I find it.

JW PHOTO · Jun 7, 2016

I just WIKI'd this and here's what I found. "The FE2 also introduced a unique rotating flywheel plus inertial mass damping system to minimize mirror shock vibration effects and render a mirror lock-up feature unnecessary." I still can't find the test article, but will look later for it. Oh, supposedly the FM2 also had this and I'm wondering if the FA from about the same time had it too.

John_Nikon_F · Jun 7, 2016

JW PHOTO said:
I just WIKI'd this and here's what I found. "The FE2 also introduced a unique rotating flywheel plus inertial mass damping system to minimize mirror shock vibration effects and render a mirror lock-up feature unnecessary." I still can't find the test article, but will look later for it. Oh, supposedly the FM2 also had this and I'm wondering if the FA from about the same time had it too.

The FM2n did, as did the FA, which actually had a slightly different mirror box than either the FM2n and the FE2.

With respect to the FM, the FM2n is a much better camera than the FM. Interchangeable focusing screens, the aforementioned rotating flywheel and mass damping system, more sensitive meter (not as sensitive as the F2SB or F2AS, but moreso than the FM), 1/250 flash sync and 1/4000 top shutter speed, etc... Also, if it breaks, better parts availability. Camera was made for 18 years, compared to the 5 years of the FM.

The Nikkormat FT series wasn't ever meant to be a contemporary of the F2. Predates the F2 by 6 years, even though it was made through 1979. Was meant to be sold as a cheaper version of an F with a built-in meter, the Seiko-Copal Square S shutter, etc. Due to the production timeline, it got pushed into the cheaper F2 role after the F was discontinued in 1973. It is, however, better suited for longer lenses than the FM/FE series. Try avoiding camera shake with an FM and a 300/4.5 of any version that's being hand-held. You need to add a MD-11 or MD-12 to provide enough ballast. The FTn or FT2, however, balances pretty well. The best camera match for that lens is the F4 with either the MB-20 or the MB-23.

-J

CMoore · Jun 8, 2016

Is there an "easy" way to spot a 2 from a 2n...on Ebay for instance.?
Thank You
I finally found this...does it jibe with your knowledge.?
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nikon_FM2

Ricardo Miranda · Jun 8, 2016

FM2 has a separate X200 setting on its shutter dial.

cuthbert said:
while the FM is a tiny and nimble camera very good for street photography.

Regarding usability of Nikkormats vs FM vs FM2/FE2, I have to disagree slightly with you in that the FM/FM2 while are smaller and lighter, they have the need to have the film advance leaver pulled out in order to take a shot.
If you want an illustration, try to hold an FM in your hands and do a vertical shot with the camera at waist lever ans using your thumb. That leaver poking out is really irritating. Something like this, but vertical:

4-26-2016_001 by Ricardo Miranda, on Flickr

The FM2/FE2 at least don't run down your batteries if you leave the leaver out as they only turn on for 16sec with a press of the shutter button.
The Nikkormat FT series and the EM/FG/FG20 in the Nikon line-up don't need the lever out and are always read to shoot.
Of course, better is an Olympus OM-1 or a -2: always ready and so quiet.

John_Nikon_F · Jun 8, 2016

CMoore said:
Is there an "easy" way to spot a 2 from a 2n...on Ebay for instance.?
Thank You
I finally found this...does it jibe with your knowledge.?
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Nikon_FM2

FM2 has X200 on the shutter speed dial. Also normally has a rounded metal spring plate on the hot shoe. It also should not have a "N" before the serial number. All chrome bodies will have the FM font on the nameplate (less bold), some black bodies may have the later bold font. If the shutter is original, there won't be two missing honeycomb pattern pieces from the closing curtain.

With respect to the Wiki page, some of the content was stuff I added. So, yes it does. I would try to find one that's at least in the 728xxxx serial range. It will have the updated titanium shutter with the replaceable curtain blades. If you can check a body out in person, I recommend mounting a lens, and setting it to an ISO and aperture that allows the 1/15 and 1/8 shutter speeds to be a correct exposure. Slowly move the shutter speed dial back and forth while watching the LEDs. They should change smoothly without any twitchiness. If they don't, then there are issues with the FRE (Functional Resistance Element) that will usually get worse until the camera either displays "+" or "-" all the time. The FRE is below the shutter speed dial. Most of the bodies below 747xxxx for chrome and 752xxxx for black seem to be ok. I'm not sure why that's the case. Conversely, a lot of the later bodies I've come across seem to have issues, even if they are very clean externally.

-J

What's your latest new old camera ? (Part 2)

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