What's with the scratching?

[eharriett]

I just received some film back from the lab. One of the rolls, a new B&W film I wanted to try, came back with many (but not all) frames scratched, with these horizontal lines going through it. The lab said to check my camera. I've had other film in it before and not had this problem, both B&W and color. Anyone else have experience with this? I've never had scratches with this before. The only variable here was the new film. Did the camera happen to develop a problem while trying out a new film, or is there some other factor for this?

Oh, and yes, I know I screwed up the settings on the camera for several of the indoor shots. Actually pulled out the wrong camera and forgot what I was shooting with. Including these to show some of the worst of the scratching only.

Camera: Olympus 35RC
Film: Rollei Retro 80S

 

[MattKing]

Can you see the scratches if you look at the negatives with a magnifier? To me, they look more like drying marks than scratches.
By the way, if you post scans, then what we see may be scanning problems. Best to post close-up photographs of the negatives themselves.

 

[drpsilver]

18 July 2017

If you can see the scratches are they on the base side or emulsion side of the film. I agree with Matt that they look more like drying marks (from a squeegee) than scratches. If they were created in the camera I would expect them to be parallel, and parallel to the edge of the negative.

Regards,
Darwin

 

[eharriett]

OK. I will check that. I admit to jumping the gun a little. I just got the images sent to me by the lab; the negs have not been returned to me yet. I saw them and panicked a bit. Sorry if I was premature. I shall post an update the moment I get the film itself back. Thanks.

 

[AgX]

To notice, all frames have the marks running in parallel, but at different angles to the edges.

 

[M Carter]

As a general rule, try not to ask general film-damage and marks questions unless you first inspect the film and tell us if it's actually on the film or only on the scans.

We can help with film, not so much with scans!

A cheap plastic loupe and a light box are pretty necessary if you stick with film shooting, and very affordable.

 

[jimjm]

The fact that the marks vary frame to frame and are not straight probably rules out the camera as the cause. It looks more like someone wiped your film with a dirty sponge. Did you scan these yourself on a flatbed? Is the glass clean?

 

[eharriett]

The fact that the marks vary frame to frame and are not straight probably rules out the camera as the cause. It looks more like someone wiped your film with a dirty sponge. Did you scan these yourself on a flatbed? Is the glass clean?

I jumped the gun, apparently. I'll let you know as soon as I get my film back. Was just in the beginnings of a bit of panic.

 

[eharriett]

http://imgur.com/a/QpDew

Finally got the negs back. Here's two strips of them. My scan has them a bit more faded than the pics, but they can be clearly seen. It isn't developer residue. I tried wiping the negs down a second time and it was definitely part of the film.

 

[foc]

Hi, from the link you posted http://imgur.com/a/QpDew I can't see the lines as clear as the first posting. Is there any way you could post a shot of a strip of your negatives against w white background, something like this?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50664634@N08/34905468870/in/dateposted-public/

Can you give a little more details of how you wiped down your negs a second time.

 

[eharriett]

I pulled them out of the mylar they came in and wiped them down using a circular motion with a lint free cloth. It is what I usually do when I need to wipe down negs.

Let's try this scan again with different settings. The scanner pulled out the sprocket holes, but I jumped up the resolution. The lines are clearly visible in between the frames and can be seen in several of them. For some reason, I can't seem to post direct, so I am having to use imgur.

http://imgur.com/a/dIFZB

 

[Bob Carnie]

First question I would ask the lab. Did you use a roller transport processor? I hate roller transport processors pretty much the reason digital ice was developed to save the labs .

 

[foc]

Most processors are leader card transport and not roller transport. (roller transport can be used for print processing). The only part of the processor that touches the film is the guide rollers and they only touch the edges (outside the sprocket holes on 35mm) and the squeegees . Now unless the squeegees are incorrectly set than you could get streaks but most processors have rotary squeegees and not the old blade type.

Can you ask your lab how they processed your film, what type of processor or was it by hand. Most labs that I know of (including my own) process B&W by hand .

 

[eharriett]

According to their site, they process their B&W on a Frontier developer/scanner.

Is this definitely not a camera problem?

 

[Bob Carnie]

As a past lab worker familiar with the Frontier developer/scanner I can tell you that this is probably the culprit... You will not see these scratches on paper proofs they make as the digital ice program is designed to eliminate them, once you put them on your enlarger or scanner the flaws become apparent.

When I quote or print for others supplying me foriegn film(not done by me) the first question I ask is how was the film processed, and if roller transport I either refuse or put a big disclaimer about scratches to the client. The fact
the proof prints do not show the scratches confuse the clients and sometimes say I am full of bullshit.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

Why aren't you developing your own film? It's not hard to do.

 

[eharriett]

As a past lab worker familiar with the Frontier developer/scanner I can tell you that this is probably the culprit... You will not see these scratches on paper proofs they make as the digital ice program is designed to eliminate them, once you put them on your enlarger or scanner the flaws become apparent.

When I quote or print for others supplying me foriegn film(not done by me) the first question I ask is how was the film processed, and if roller transport I either refuse or put a big disclaimer about scratches to the client. The fact
the proof prints do not show the scratches confuse the clients and sometimes say I am full of bullshit.

OK. Thanks. I was kind of hoping it was a lab issue and not my camera (already have to send one out, hate to send them both out, though). This was what I needed to know

Why aren't you developing your own film? It's not hard to do.

I'm still in the learning phase. I've got a development tank and have some chemicals too. However, I'm not confident enough to say 100% OK I'll develop my own film. These were vacation photos. Memories I wanna keep. With something like that, I send out to pros. Although in hindsight, looks like they messed up instead of me.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I always encourage those who send out film to find a lab that does good dip and dunk for colour work... I use Toronto Image Works for C41 needs.

For black and white Jobo systems are great or as Gerald says small stainless steel tanks can be purchased and over time you can do your own BW quite easily.. there are hundreds if not thousands of workers here
that can give you good advice on how to get up and running.

Bob

 

[AgX]

First question I would ask the lab. Did you use a roller transport processor? I hate roller transport processors pretty much the reason digital ice was developed to save the labs .

Now unless the squeegees are incorrectly set than you could get streaks but most processors have rotary squeegees and not the old blade type

See post #5:

To notice, all frames have the marks running in parallel, but at different angles to the edges.

Roller transport issues cannot be excluded but thus are very unlikely.

 

[fdonadio]

I'm still in the learning phase. I've got a development tank and have some chemicals too. However, I'm not confident enough to say 100% OK I'll develop my own film. These were vacation photos. Memories I wanna keep. With something like that, I send out to pros. Although in hindsight, looks like they messed up instead of me.

Black a white is easy enough that you can get very good at it in almost no time. If you are a methodical person, it will be even faster.

My recommendations:

1. If you only shoot 35mm, go for stainless reels (120 is tricky), otherwise go for plastic. If you go for stainless, practice with a sacrificial roll of film while watching TV until younger confident you can do it in the dark.

2. Store your mixed chemistry in wide mouth PET bottles filled to the top. Label your chemistry bottles clearly.

3. Whatever agitation regime you stick with, try to be consistent. After some time, you'll know if you need to extend or shorten the dev time based on what you shot. I agitate continuously for the first 30 seconds, then 5 inversions every 30 seconds.

4. Stick with one developer until you get comfortable with the process, unless you are sure your choice of developer was wrong. I use D-76.

5. Mix your chemistry using distilled water. It's cheap and easy to find... and will save you lots of headache! You can wash with tap water, unless you have hard water.

6. Last but now least, follow the manufacturers' instructions. Film data sheets have information in various temperatures and developers.

It's really that simple!


Cheers,
Flavio