What's up with rebranded film? (IMAGO 320)

twelvetone12 · Dec 5, 2017

Today I was shopping at ars-imago and I stumbled upon this:
http://www.ars-imago.ch/imago320blackwhitefilm13536-p-15274.html

They are offering their "own" brand of film, which (their description) is not a new emulsion but not currently on the market.
What's up lately? It seems that private-label films like this are popping out quite often this year - is there a huge collection of forgotten mater rolls around the world? Or people are cleaning their cellars? Or is it possible that they actually had it coated for them? I thought I would be quite expensive to do a custom coating run (and finishing, and everything). I dropped them an email as I am curious...

trendland · Dec 5, 2017

Sorry for stating (first let me say I am waiting in new emulsions) - this kind of
film is total nonsence.
You are just buying the new designed packaging with this film.
Don't waste your money.
Find out what film it is originally and safe some bucks - or you buy some films more to same pricing.
The revolutionary improvement this company made (behind the nice packaging design) was to tell us they find
a better E.I. (exposure index) to this possible Agfa APX 400 emulsion/derivate.
But I have strong doubts they realy have done this.

with regards

PS : Last possibility I also would imagine as realitic : Marketing people realy don't know the meaning what E.I. actually is...

NO RESPECT TO SUCH "Sensational Films" beware of.

Saganich · Dec 5, 2017

Someone else stumbled upon a warehouse of EFKE film.

trendland · Dec 5, 2017

twelftone12 - you shouldn't be sad about.
Don't worry - it is a real joke to bring out this film.
But if you like it (the design isn't real bad) - follow my advice !
To have new films is not as complicate as one may think.
To sell new films is much less complicate I have an idea from now.
What we would need is a closed carton factory. And a little money in advance
(The more advance the more easily to get in these days)
Perhaps we can get the closed factory for less? But then we have to swear to create jobs if local authoritys will know.
The rest is easy going with designer software and a modern font.
Film cans from our new films don't need to be printed with our trade design (too expensive) we let them in "irish black"
Comming to a little series of new emulsions from ILFORD derivates :
A retro pan with ISO 32 *thats our exclusive improvement.
A standard FP 100 (ISO improvement comming from 125)
And our new Premium film :
Super Delta 80. If you order first the Ilford bulk we soon come into business.
I WILL DO THE REST

with regards

twelvetone12 · Dec 5, 2017

Hahaha no worries I don't want to buy it! But I wish I could stumble in a forgotten master roll

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

First film that comes to my mind is Foma Retropan 320 Soft, but what about Kodak 5222 ?

trendland · Dec 5, 2017

AgX said:
First film that comes to my mind is Foma Retropan 320 Soft, but what about Kodak 5222 ?

Do you mean this here ?
FPP to me is the most worst group of guys in film business I personaly know.
Better make business with our fallen chineese comrades.

with regards

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

Cine Still offers Kodak 5222 too.

Pioneer · Dec 5, 2017

Give it a break guys. Buy it or don't buy it, it is entirely up to you. But everyone has the right to try to make money selling film whether or not they own a big coating machine or not.

Jeez, I am seriously getting tired of all the film Nazis running around telling us what films we are supposed to buy or not and which companies we are supposed to support or not.

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

To me the issue is less that someone is telling me what film to use, but the number of rebranded films at the moment, which is confusing.

pbromaghin · Dec 5, 2017

It's probably Foma Retro, which B&H has for $5. Just what currency is this quoted in? An italian company quoting prices in some kind of Franc?

trendland · Dec 5, 2017

Yes you may be right Pioneer as I sayd I love every new film. If it is a real new emulsion.Because it is just nice to have a real greater amound of different films as we know this from the past.
What I also like is a film wich is not a brand new emulsion but we should have a guess from what original film it comes.
Yeah I allways like such films too : If they are a bit cheaper than the original film.
You like the original emulsion why not trying the brand/derivate from other sellers.
But I also realy not like that kind of business in film market to tell it is a wonderfull new film but the package is the only news.
I realy hate such marketing from film companies telling us a lot of about various speed ?
Wow "various speed because of brand new emulsions - I soon shoud have this new film"
The same is with high priced films from old masterrolls.Hope such films are indeed not so long expired (from unclear production dates)
But.... (please forgive me for the following)

....
What I am hating very most is the company above because they sell 85% of their films in long expired badly stored condition wich strange shifts and are telling : "Folks you may find something special like this here only in our store to a very limited time.Hurry up you'll never find this sensational film again if you don't be quick in decision"
Yeah - I HOPE I WILL NOT FIND SUCH SCRATCH ANYWERE ELSE !
If you like expired films with strange colors it is your decision because this is a free land - and sometimes it may be a nice way in photography to do so therefore nowbody is allowed to tell you :
DON'T DO IT !!!!! Or you got in conflict with the "original emulsion characteristics police" ....
Why Do I hate them so much ? Because they find a way in business ? - Of cause not - they should also have the right to state :
Folks it is your own decision to buy our stuff - we are just business man and this is a free land......a.s.o
But if there would not be this smal complication Pioneer ?
Their business is to create a new target group from a group of people who has not so much experience and they are selling sensational scratch to highest prices to make big money.
Let us together protect such people be are allowed to protect them by saying :
This marketing is nonsense if it is nonsense.
Or should't we.......???

with regards

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

pbromaghin said:
Just what currency is this quoted in? An italian company quoting prices in some kind of Franc?

It is a swiss company. And yes, they use Francs in Switzerland.

pentaxuser · Dec 5, 2017

pbromaghin said:
It's probably Foma Retro, which B&H has for $5. Just what currency is this quoted in? An italian company quoting prices in some kind of Franc?

As the company is based in Zurich, it is likely to be Swiss francs which makes it almost the same price as B&H $5. It would seem to be Fomapan Retro 320 as it has 320 in the name. I don't know of any other film rated at 320. but Retro 320 is still available so I have no idea why they say it is no longer available - marketing speak to make it more attractive, maybe?

To the OP : So the advertising may be a little disingenuous but if $5 is a good price and you haven't used it, then buy it and try it. You could even look at the long thread on Retro 320 on Photrio first.

Disingenuous marketing does not make it a bad film, nor make the repackaging company a bunch of crooks

pentaxuser

Wallendo · Dec 5, 2017

It seems like AGFA has hidden master rolls of surveillance film in caves and cupboards all over the world to be discovered at different times.

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

There is no hint at all that this an Agfa film.

pentaxuser · Dec 5, 2017

Wallendo said:
It seems like AGFA has hidden master rolls of surveillance film in caves and cupboards all over the world to be discovered at different times.

Where's Indiana J when you need him?

pentaxuser

pbromaghin · Dec 5, 2017

AgX said:
It is a swiss company. And yes, they use Francs in Switzerland.

Oh. Their address appears to be in Rome.

Pioneer · Dec 5, 2017

trendland said:
Yes you may be right Pioneer as I sayd I love every new film. If it is a real new emulsion.Because it is just nice to have a real greater amound of different films as we know this from the past.
What I also like is a film wich is not a brand new emulsion but we should have a guess from what original film it comes.
Yeah I allways like such films too : If they are a bit cheaper than the original film.
You like the original emulsion why not trying the brand/derivate from other sellers.
But I also realy not like that kind of business in film market to tell it is a wonderfull new film but the package is the only news.
I realy hate such marketing from film companies telling us a lot of about various speed ?
Wow "various speed because of brand new emulsions - I soon shoud have this new film"
The same is with high priced films from old masterrolls.Hope such films are indeed not so long expired (from unclear production dates)
But.... (please forgive me for the following)....
What I am hating very most is the company above because they sell 85% of their films in long expired badly stored condition wich strange shifts and are telling : "Folks you may find something special like this here only in our store to a very limited time.Hurry up you'll never find this sensational film again if you don't be quick in decision"
Yeah - I HOPE I WILL NOT FIND SUCH SCRATCH ANYWERE ELSE !
If you like expired films with strange colors it is your decision because this is a free land - and sometimes it may be a nice way in photography to do so therefore nowbody is allowed to tell you :
DON'T DO IT !!!!! Or you got in conflict with the "original emulsion characteristics police" ....
Why Do I hate them so much ? Because they find a way in business ? - Of cause not - they should also have the right to state :
Folks it is your own decision to buy our stuff - we are just business man and this is a free land......a.s.o
But if there would not be this smal complication Pioneer ?
Their business is to create a new target group from a group of people who has not so much experience and they are selling sensational scratch to highest prices to make big money.
Let us together protect such people be are allowed to protect them by saying :
This marketing is nonsense if it is nonsense.
Or should't we.......???

with regards

You have obviously had a bad experience with the Film Photography Project Trendland and there is nothing I can do about that. But I have been buying film of various kinds from them for years exactly because they re-spool films for formats I like to shoot. I have also purchased other films from them as well, such as 5222 that they have nicely re-spooled onto a reel I can easily use in my bulk film loader. l don't buy a lot because they are a bit expensive for me, but I do buy some from time to time because I like the service they provide. I have yet to run into a situation such as the one you are describing. If they are selling outdated film then it should be described as such. If they are not doing so then you have an honest problem and it should be handled directly with them. If you want to tell the people on this forum which film you bought that was outdated, that is great. But to just run them down for the fun of it is not good.

As for the rest of this thread, speculating about what film Imago may be selling under their own brand is fine. It is always interesting. But using that speculation as an opportunity to run down everyone who sells film whose company name doesn't start with "K" or "I" is BS.

And I am sure I would buy film from the Chinese, fallen or otherwise, if they were selling something I found interesting. I buy stuff from just about everyone else, why not them. In fact, if they started spooling up 620 film I'm sure I would buy some from them.

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

"ars-imago international is the second company of the ars-imago group. Started in 2004 in Switzerland (ars-imago.ch) with the aim to offer to all the lover of the analogic photography an important place to find products and share. In 2009 we opened the shop in Rome."

The OP gave a link to the swiss site, already visible at the URL.

pbromaghin · Dec 5, 2017

Hmmm. What the heck did I click on? That same bottom corner of the page had an address in Rome. Oh well.

AgX · Dec 5, 2017

They also have a .com address. There you get Euro prices and the Rome address.

twelvetone12 · Dec 5, 2017

AgX said:
To me the issue is less that someone is telling me what film to use, but the number of rebranded films at the moment, which is confusing.

This. +1

BTW ars-imago is a nice shop here in Swiss, I often go there by person, and there is a nice ramen shop nearby They also have Italian offices if you are in the EU (the .com site, based in Rome).

pentaxuser · Dec 5, 2017

I have just checked with a couple of U.K. retailers and 5 Swiss francs makes this film very competitive in terms of the U.K. prices, assuming it is Foma Retro 320 which it almost certainly is. Time I raided my numbered Swiss bank account which is secret along with my master rolls of Agfa surveillance film

pentaxuser

Sirius Glass · Dec 5, 2017

I am happy with Kodak and Ilford. My photographs are valuable to me so I stick with those two. If you want to support others please feel free to do so.

What's up with rebranded film? (IMAGO 320)

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