What's the secret? eyes adjustment to dark

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removed-user-1

Do you know why pirates often wore eye patches?

They used one eye for dark vision and the other for bright light vision and they switched the patch back and forth.

I'm no marksman but it seems to me that would interfere with aiming a firearm...

My experience with darkroom and normal lighting conditions is somewhat skewed due to my eye condition (Third Nerve Palsy in the right eye combined with very strong nearsightedness in the left eye). Basically, I have one eye that doesn't dilate: the pupil of my right eye is always at the smallest aperture and my eyes do not work together (there are other symptoms but these are the main issues). It almost has the same effect as wearing a patch, in fact, because I do tend to switch eyes depending on what I'm doing although I wear glasses when driving so I can use both.

I think the eyepatch trick might work very well to get used to the differing levels of light. When I was a QC tech, I worked in color darkrooms with no safelights at all (as well as the normal ortho and orange safelights for B&W) and had no problems whatsoever working in those rooms in rapid transition with normal lighting, including judging color and density.
 

RalphLambrecht

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If I have to, yes. It's there so that I can see my finished print in better light...

That's OK to evaluate some print detail, but it is not recommended to evaluate final print tones, because it is a sure way to create prints that are too dark! The evaluation light should simulate the actual display light as close as possible. Better yet, it should be dimmer. Evaluating a print in bright fluorescent lighting and displaying it at typical room illumination does not work well. You're better off doing it the other way around (up to a point). A 35 W fluorescent light is rather bright.

To prove the point, take a slightly dark print and move it towards a very bright light. The closer you get, the better the print looks.

My print evaluation board is illuminated to 170 lux. That's roughly EV6 at ASA100 with an incident meter or taking a reading off a gray card. Normal print display lighting is 1,400 lux or EV9.

Maybe, this will also solve your adaption issue.
 

Phil

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Close to what?

Ralph,

My point is if the 'light' in the darkroom in safelight illumination and the evaluation 'light' used to view the finished prints (wet with fixer, with dry down change taken into account) with is close, then your eyes would not need to adjust as much. I expect you would want the evaluation light source to be the same as what you plan to use when you exhibit the print. (Maybe this is not viable when working with an enlarger. It's been a long time since I've used one - I have no idea how sensitive enlarging paper is these days.) I may go from a 30 second exposure with a 120 watt incandescent bulb to Thomas safelight illumination and I don't recall ever having to wait for my eyes to adjust before I put the paper in the developer. I'll use a 'light' to simulate the gallery lighting when I evaluate the print after it's been in the fixer for a minute and not have to wait for my eyes to adjust when I turn it off.

YMMV as I only make contact prints on silver chloride paper.

Phil

Footnote - I just read your response above - I think we are on the same page for print evaluation. I'll get my lux meter out and take some readings next time I'm printing to see how my light sources match - I'm guessing I'm evaluating in brighter light than you are.
 
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tkamiya

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Ralph,

My desk lamp is 15 watts, not 35. But your point is well taken. It perhaps IS too bright for the purpose intended.

I will:
1) invest in better suited lighting apparatus
2) order a bag of carrots
 

MPandolfo

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To evaluate the prints you need a light level similar to the normal print display lighting, as Ralph says. But, to clean the negative/negative holder, and to align the negative in the holder you can use the enlarger itself to illuminate the working area. This light is excellent, much better than room light, to detect dust particles on the negative and glass carriers. You can use the lens diaphragm to control the brightness if needed.
 

Photo Engineer

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I'm no marksman but it seems to me that would interfere with aiming a firearm...

Aiming a cannon? The captain? No, that is beneath him.

Besides, the smoothbore rifles they used back then didn't need much aiming. And, they didn't have the distance. So, I'm afraid that aimining back then was not much of an issue.

PE
 
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Aiming a cannon? The captain? No, that is beneath him.

Besides, the smoothbore rifles they used back then didn't need much aiming. And, they didn't have the distance. So, I'm afraid that aimining back then was not much of an issue.

PE

No such thing as a "smoothbore rifle" It is either a smooth bore (no rifiling in the barrel) or it is a rifle. As it happens, all naval guns in that era were smooth bore. Pirate ships were typically equipped with virtual pop-gun 3 or 6 pounders. They were no match for a naval vessel which fired anywhere from 6 pounders in a sloop through 64 pounders on the lower gundeck of a 3-deck ship of the line.

Truly a ships captain would never aim one of the guns. Each gun had a crew including loaders, swabbers, rope puller guys, and the gun captain whose job it was to aim and fire. And yes, there was definitely a need for aiming. The guns were not as accurate as our modern rifles but they could be aimed and fired with a reasonable expectation that they could hit a moving ship at over a mile. That is, the 24 pounder and heavier had that kind of range. A pirate pop-gun was probably good for no more than 300 yards.
 

Photo Engineer

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A slip of the syntax. There is no such thing as a smoothbore rifle. Everything they had then was a smoothbore!

However, I disagree with the "aiming" part when it comes to cannons and smoothbore muskets or whatever they used.

With the roll and pitch of the ship it was difficult to hit anything at all unless the closed to less than 300 yards, and the muskets were still virtually useless at that range. I don't remember the figures, but I think 50 yards or so was a good range for the musket but even then, good armour could resist a musket ball leaving only a lead smear or a heavy dent and a bruise. But, with the packed men on the deck it was sometimes easy to hit an ordinary crewman or member of a boarding party with little or no aim at all.

Heaven help the individual who was hit though. Usually, muskets of the time (or smoothbores) were 80 calbre. The balls were as heavy as lead (pun intended). I have my Great Grandfather's cap lock, powder horn and bullet mold he used at Little Round Top. The rate of fire of those things was abysmally slow and it took a series of inventions to improve the use of rifling to the extent that it was usable. Rifles were slower firing until the hollow base balls were invented for use in a retooled musket with rifles. The expanding hollow base flared the ball and provided tooth on the rifling in the retooled musket and didn't require driving the bullet down the barrel of the rifle as was common then.

PE
 

Maris

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My darkroom inspection light is a small 60 Watt reflector spotlight in an aluminium snoot.

When I switch it on I can't see the bulb, that's down in the snoot, and I can't see the beam because there are no dust motes in the darkroom air. So my dark adapted eyes don't squirm with the change in illumination. But when I hold a negative in that beam at an oblique angle I can see every spot and fleck of dust and I know for sure when I have cleaned the negative successfully.

The same inspection light can be turned to point down into the fixer tray for a detailed look at what is in there but I never use it to judge gray tones. If I do then everything will be made too dark and will have to be done again.
 
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A slip of the syntax. There is no such thing as a smoothbore rifle. Everything they had then was a smoothbore!

However, I disagree with the "aiming" part when it comes to cannons and smoothbore muskets or whatever they used.

With the roll and pitch of the ship it was difficult to hit anything at all unless the closed to less than 300 yards, and the muskets were still virtually useless at that range. I don't remember the figures, but I think 50 yards or so was a good range for the musket but even then, good armour could resist a musket ball leaving only a lead smear or a heavy dent and a bruise. But, with the packed men on the deck it was sometimes easy to hit an ordinary crewman or member of a boarding party with little or no aim at all.

Heaven help the individual who was hit though. Usually, muskets of the time (or smoothbores) were 80 calbre. The balls were as heavy as lead (pun intended). I have my Great Grandfather's cap lock, powder horn and bullet mold he used at Little Round Top. The rate of fire of those things was abysmally slow and it took a series of inventions to improve the use of rifling to the extent that it was usable. Rifles were slower firing until the hollow base balls were invented for use in a retooled musket with rifles. The expanding hollow base flared the ball and provided tooth on the rifling in the retooled musket and didn't require driving the bullet down the barrel of the rifle as was common then.

PE

My black powder smooth bore musket has a lot more accuracy than the average Brown Bess. Most of it has to do with the fact that the balls I use are sized accurately and the patch for each ball has some great modern properties. What that means is that the ball does not bounce around in the barrel and exit the muzzle going any which direction. That means my shots are a lot more accurate than those of a revolutionary era soldier. The muskets they used were manufactured to pretty loose tolerances. The bore diameter of a batch of muskets varied significantly enough to make it impossible to call each one the same caliber the way we can with modern guns today. Musket balls were formed to fit the average bore which meant that a significant number of soldiers fired ill-fitting balls. The patch you wrapped a ball in was supposed to absorb some of the slop but was not extremely effective.

The naval cannon was made in much smaller numbers to closer tolerances. This allowed for better quality control. A wealthy captain could outfit his ship with the best guns a given armoury was producing at the time. Cannon balls were iron instead of lead and therefore were harder and did not deform. Produced at lower volumes, the cannon ball diameter for a given weight didn't vary much. As long as the ball was actually round and weighted the nominal weight, it had the correct diameter.

On the ship, the best gun crews using the best cannons and hand chipped (removed rust particles and manufacturing imperfections) cannon balls and using exactly measured charges, could get surprising accuracy... given a slow rate of fire.

The situation you describe is exactly correct for typical battle conditions where the ships closed to distances of 50 yards or less. In those conditions, accuracy was completely irrelevant. Every ball is going to strike home. The battle victor is the one whose gun crews didn't panic but kept up a brisk rate of fire in the general direction of the enemy.

This was the scenario where the carronade was particularly useful. Its large bore diameter allowed it to accept a very heavy ball. These were usually special balls that were hollow and filled with musket balls. The carronade was a short ugly beast and had no real accuracy to speak of. You didn't aim those. Once the enemy was closing to boarding distance, let go with the carronade and clear the enemy deck of boarders. Every British warship had a couple of these on the quarterdeck.

In chase situations where a ship (a frigate for example) was in a stern chase with an enemy, they would use a gun called a "bow chaser". This was a forward facing 18 or 24 pounder manned by the most experienced crew. The goal was to fire into an enemy ship at pretty significant distance with hopes of bringing down rigging so that the chasing ship could catch the fleeing ship. This is the scenario where the inherent accuracy of a smooth bore cannon was used. Could a gun crew hit the target at 1 mile with every shot? Of course not. As I recall, the averages were something like 1 shot in every 10 hit the target at that distance.

Note that a "24 pounder" is not a cannon that weighs 24 pounds, but one that shoots a 24 pound ball.
 
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MPandolfo

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who said thread hijacking ? ;-)
 
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Not exactly hijacking. Ron and I are describing different aspects of the elephant with blinders on our eyes. The conversation came this direction because some wag suggested that a pirate eye patch interfered with aiming a cannon.
 

removed-user-1

The conversation came this direction because some wag suggested that a pirate eye patch interfered with aiming a cannon.

I was just making an aside, as part of a point I wanted to make based on my own experience with eye problems which I think are relative to the OP's question. I apologize for distracting everyone.
 
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I was just making an aside, as part of a point I wanted to make based on my own experience with eye problems which I think are relative to the OP's question. I apologize for distracting everyone.

No apologies necessary!! I didn't mean to suggest that the direction you comment sent this thread was hurtfull. In fact, thank you... If the thread goes off somewhere interesting because of this then we all win.
 

Photo Engineer

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I agree, it was interesting and of no detriment to anyone. I enjoyed it and learned a lot. However, not wanting to "pirate" the thread any further, I think I will stop. Thanks to all.

PE
 

winger

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We sat through many slide shows in college and were told then to close our eyes just before the lights were switched either on or off. So I do the same in the darkroom. It seems to shorten the adjustment time.
 

Allen Friday

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For the eye patch fans, Mythbusters did a show on the effects of an eye patch on one's ability to fight. They found that the patch worked very well. The "pirate" would keep the patch over one eye. In the sun, the non covered eye was used. When the pirate went into the dark hold of the the ship, the patch was switched to cover the other eye. The previously covered eye was used to the dark and the pirate could fight in the darkened part of the ship. The mythbusters used swords in their "test."

I actually tried this in the dark room and it works. But, I found I didn't like working with only one eye at a time, so I got a brighter safe light. The one thing I do, however, is to close my eyes for about 5 seconds whenever I turn lights on or off. Winger (above) gives good advice.
 

Photo Engineer

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Well, I'll give you a tip here then.

I run through my darkroom activities in full light in a dry run. Then I go "dark" and do it over and over in a rehearsal memorizing the position or potential position of every item. In fact, in total darkness, I can usually reach out and grab a given item. I used to do that at EK.

I find it useful to have a red flashlight and a dim white flashlight that I use to inspect prints in the developer and in the fixer respectively. I find it useless to evaluate prints in dim light so I only evaluate approximations and wait until drydown to do the final eval in full light (room or sun).

But, this is so subjective, I always say, do what works for you. If you ruin prints or eye capability at a given condition, then the onus is on you to change your workflow.

Remember that this is based on over 50 years of lab experience. I cannot help you at a distance, but I might be able to help 1:1 but this is beyond the scope of this forum.

PE
 

mts

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I follow procedures similar to PE. My 50+ years were spent in astronomical darkrooms and involved a lot of cutting glass plates to fit custom holders in spectrographs. It is a real downer to get the holder loaded, turn on the lights, and find blood all over the bench. Dark adaptation occurs much more quickly when you are younger. On the other hand, bright light is needed when you are older and have to see through the cataracts.
 
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tkamiya

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....so.... how many carrots do I need to eat to aim a cannon? (I mean get this magic eyes?)
 
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....so.... how many carrots do I need to eat to aim a cannon? (I mean get this magic eyes?)

You need to think about body weight and your specific metabolism. I, for example, go through a bag of those little mini-carrots from the supermarket every week. Actually, my oldest son is in the habit of munching on my carrots too. I caught him last night and all he could say was "Err, what's up doc?"
 

steven_e007

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Carrots contain the carotinoid pigment beta-carotin. You can use this to make vitamin A, which is essential for good eyesite, particularly night vision - hence the 'carrots for good eyes' idea, but your eyes also needs other carotinoids and other vitamins & minerals, too. This is a very hot topic in opthamological circles at the moment, lots of information out there about the effects of diet on cataracts, macular degereration and so on. The concensus seems to be that rather than just carrots, you need dark green and orange-yellow vegetables such as peppers, spinach, cabbage, broccoli and squash.

Hmmm... maybe we need to start a recipe section? :wink:
 
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