What's the learning curve like for wet plate?

Donald Qualls · Nov 4, 2020

The B&S starter kit now includes just the chemicals and a few black coated aluminum plates. No tanks, no plate holders, no camera for sure -- they're even out of stock on the optional drying racks. And it's spendy, though not prohibitively so -- looks like a couple months' film budget to get the starter kit. Once i get a little stockpile built up I can save up. As noted, I need to start by buying a book, but I'll want a kit pretty shortly after that. I need to look at my 9x12 plate holders, see if I can figure a way to get the plates out of them without touching the wet collodion (getting them in isn't the problem). One advantage is I can do this under safelight, and the safelight can be dim incandescent with no filter. If so, I won't need any hardware to start (a sensitizing tank and one for fixer would be welcome as opposed to trays -- but I can build those from solvent welded sheet acrylic or glass bonded with silicone caulk).

removedacct1 · Nov 4, 2020

The B&S Collodion kit doesn't include things like silver tanks or plate holder - their kit never did (At least in the past 5 years, as far as I know). You have to source those things elsewhere. A drying rack can be something simple like a cheap bamboo dish drying rack (I have one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DJHDBQA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which can be had for a few dollars. No need to buy a "reproduction" rack if the budget doesn't allow.
Note also that the B&S starter kit is quite a bit more expensive than the similar kit offered by UV Photographics (I buy all my materials from UVP) See: http://uvphotographics.com/wet-plate-collodion-starter-kit/
The UVP kit does not include some of the minor peripheral tools like the alcohol lamp, the hygrometer, and a few other items, but it does include the essential components, and for about half the price of the B&S kit. There's nothing wrong with what B&S offers, but I find them consistently more expensive than anyone else's wet plate supplies.
As for a silver tank, as you pointed out, you can build your own quite easily from black plexiglas since it seems you know what you need to build one. Mind you, I know several wet platers who do use trays for a silver bath, so it can be a serviceable option. You can keep the silver tray in a suitably large paper safe when not in use.

removed account4 · Nov 4, 2020

maybe it was 10-15 years ago they sold the big box cameras as part of a kit, I almost bought one of them but money was tight and I had no time so I opted out. its not hard to buy a big box camera and do what they did.. paint the film gate and make a way to secure the plates -- box cameras ( or post card format folders ) are super cheep. I sometimes shoot dry plate ferrotypes in a Pentax k1000, so it is doable to just put the plate on the film gate and shut the back..
Donald, do you have a 4x5 camera that can accept a pack film holder? that's an option some folks use. you put silver craft wire in the corners and put black paint on the film gate so it won't react to the glass or metal plate ... graphic-pack film holders are pretty cheap and you don't have to destroy (potentially expensive) dry plate holders ( cut the septum out and string the wire ) to make them...

Two23 · Nov 4, 2020

I'll write more later. I've been doing wet plate every week--4x5, 5x7, 8x10 for the past 15 months. I'm strictly an outdoor shooter. Outdoors is considerably more difficult because the temperature changes affect development time, and the exposures have to be guessed at because you can't really meter it. Coating plates etc. isn't hard to learn but knowing the relationship between exposure and developing is the single most difficult aspect. It generally takes me nearly an hour to make a successful photo outdoors.

Kent in SD

Donald Qualls · Nov 4, 2020

jnantz said:
Donald, do you have a 4x5 camera that can accept a pack film holder? that's an option some folks use. you put silver craft wire in the corners and put black paint on the film gate so it won't react to the glass or metal plate ... graphic-pack film holders are pretty cheap and you don't have to destroy (potentially expensive) dry plate holders ( cut the septum out and string the wire ) to make them...

I actually have a film pack adapter that fits my Ideal plate cameras -- had been planning to make it into a second ground glass back (got three of the cameras, somehow, two good lenses in shutters -- different focal lengths and different sizes -- and one good shutter with no glass that I use for pinhole). The down side of this is that the film pack adapter, as I recall, doesn't have provision for a dark slide. I'll have to dig it up and check...

Two23 · Nov 4, 2020

The best bang for the buck is the Lund 4x5 holder. It's a little fiddly but so simple it works all the time. Chemicals aren't a big deal to buy, make, and use. I learned by getting the Coffer "Doer's Guide" and watching Youtube. You really have to do it to learn it, and keep at it. I kept at it weekly and got to where I'm at least competent although have by no means mastered it. I shoot 4x5, 5x7, and 8x10. An 8x10 looks really nice but it eats up chemicals pretty fast. I have a 4x5 system and portable lightweight dark box that is pretty easy to hike with and use. I took a photo of a waterfall in South Dakota a few days ago with this outfit. All in all the hardest part is the developing. You have to learn how to quickly judge if a negative is ready to stop developing. You have to learn how to "read" the result and know if you're exposure is good or not, and then try adjust and try again.

Kent in SD

radiant · Nov 5, 2020

Two23 said:
I have a 4x5 system and portable lightweight dark box that is pretty easy to hike with and use. I took a photo of a waterfall in South Dakota a few days ago with this outfit. All in all the hardest part is the developing. You have to learn how to quickly judge if a negative is ready to stop developing. You have to learn how to "read" the result and know if you're exposure is good or not, and then try adjust and try again.

Sounds interesting. Could you post pictures of your portable system?

I see the evaluation of plate can be bit of a learning curve; you have to learn if the exposure AND development was correct from finished plate (two variables combined).

Donald Qualls · Nov 5, 2020

@vedostuu Aside from working in positive if you're doing black-backed plates, it ought to be much the same as looking at a film negative and deciding whether it was over/under exposed or over/under developed -- it'll be a question of shadow and highlight detail, vs. contrast (of cousre, glass negatives are often made to higher contrast than is desirable for film, because they're commonly used for alt-process printing). And the development by inspection will be more like the way I originally learned to process prints -- snatching them when they're ready, instead of giving a fixed time to ensure they were fully developed and fully exposed blacks would be black.

I need to get that "Doer's Guide" and save up for a starter kit, or else just buy the chemicals loose. Nitric acid for silver bath maintenance seems like the only one that would be hard to get, and since the same vendors that have the starter kits sell the other stuff loose, they probably offer that in small bottles as well.

urnem57 · Feb 24, 2021

What gauge of silver wire do I want to use when modifying 4x5 film holders to hold plates? I realize that they will leave white marks on the corners of the plates from their shadows. Not quite as elegant of a solution as Jason’s holders. But for learning and until I buy a few more, the modified ones will have to do. I am looking at 24 gauge silver wire. I need the smallest possible diameter that will have the strength to support the plates and las for a long while, since they will be epoxied in place. Thanks in advance.

removedacct1 · Feb 24, 2021

urnem57 said:
What gauge of silver wire do I want to use when modifying 4x5 film holders to hold plates? I realize that they will leave white marks on the corners of the plates from their shadows. Not quite as elegant of a solution as Jason’s holders. But for learning and until I buy a few more, the modified ones will have to do. I am looking at 24 gauge silver wire. I need the smallest possible diameter that will have the strength to support the plates and las for a long while, since they will be epoxied in place. Thanks in advance.

When I made my own 5x7 plate holder, I opted to epoxy small triangles of clear plastic in the corners to support the plate, instead of silver wire. It worked very well and didn't leave the lines a wire support would have.

urnem57 · Feb 24, 2021

Brilliant idea! Thanks.

urnem57 · Feb 26, 2021

paulbarden said:
When I made my own 5x7 plate holder, I opted to epoxy small triangles of clear plastic in the corners to support the plate, instead of silver wire. It worked very well and didn't leave the lines a wire support would have.

What type of plastic did you use? How thick? Thanks!

removedacct1 · Feb 26, 2021

urnem57 said:
What type of plastic did you use? How thick? Thanks!

It was thin; less than a mm. I don’t remember what type of plastic it was or where I got it from, but I know I scavenged it from waste plastic found in the house. IE: some kind of container I cut up.

Donald Qualls · Feb 26, 2021

I'd guess a CD case or similar would be a good source of thin, clear, reasonably resilient material.

removedacct1 · Feb 26, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
I'd guess a CD case or similar would be a good source of thin, clear, reasonably resilient material.

Come to think of it, that may in fact have been what I used!

urnem57 · Feb 26, 2021

Brilliant, once again! Thanks.

Coldstored · Apr 5, 2021

urnem57 said:
What gauge of silver wire do I want to use when modifying 4x5 film holders to hold plates? I realize that they will leave white marks on the corners of the plates from their shadows. Not quite as elegant of a solution as Jason’s holders. But for learning and until I buy a few more, the modified ones will have to do. I am looking at 24 gauge silver wire. I need the smallest possible diameter that will have the strength to support the plates and las for a long while, since they will be epoxied in place. Thanks in advance.

Here is a video of a film holder modification:

urnem57 · Apr 12, 2021

Thanks. That’s what started my quest. I decided to go with The Graflex pack holder route instead. There were plans on here for a 3D printed insert that I found here too.

What's the learning curve like for wet plate?

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