What's the best buy in used MF? Moving up from a Yashica 124

[Sully75]

Hi there,

I have owned a Yashica 124 but haven't used it much until the last couple of months where I've started to shoot film again after several years with a 5d. I really enjoy the MF process, and I like working wtih the Yashica, but definitely notice some problems with the camera. Lens flare is huge, and I kind of get the feeling that the lens is not all that sharp to begin with. It works good when conditions are perfect, stopped down, but anywhere near wide open is pretty soft.

I've attached two photos I've taken with the camera and I'm pretty happy with them, but I've lost a fair amount of pictures due to lens flare and softness.

So I'd like to buy a MF camera but my budget is pretty thin. I'm wondering what the best buy for an ugly duckling MF camera is right now? One thing I really don't like about the Yashica is the lack of close focusing. I was thinking that maybe a Mamiya RB67 might be a good choice, but I'm open for suggestions. Priorities are portability (not really excited about the Mamiya TLR), close focusing for portraits, lens sharpness and cost (or lack thereof). I'd prefer a 6x6 format.

Any thoughts?

 

[jamesgignac]

Well I haven't tried one myself but I've heard good things about the Pentacon Six and they tend to be pretty cheap:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Pentacon-Six-TL-w-Zeiss-MC-Biometar-2-8-80-Manual-shade_W0QQitemZ160415010540

Best of luck with your hunting! If you're not already aware of camerapedia.org they can be very helpful if you look through their categories (slr-6x6.)

 

[nyoung]

You might as well go for the RB now and save the cash and the time you'll spend trading up to it.

I've been where you are and feel your pain. I started with the 124. Tried the Mamiya twin lens - same problems as the Yashica with a better but still very limited lens choice. I also tried out roll film backs on a Super Speed Graphic with middling results - solved the close focusing itch but just too limited in every other way.

I bought a used RB67 kit last year and am not looking back. Lenses are good to excellent - newer coated examples are better on the flare issue - at steal-of-a-deal prices. Its easily serviced at lots of shops around the country. Flash sync at all shutter speeds. Lots of backs available in various formats (including D*** if you are so inclined and inherit a pile of cash some day). All round - lens selection, accessories etc. - the RB series comes closest to providing the flexibility you're used to as a 35mm/Digi SLR shooter.

The only down side I find is that it is a heavy beast - I often shoot off a monopod in the field just because of the weight - and the double cocking of the shutter and the film back takes some getting used to.

 

[Jeff Kubach]

I recommend a RB67 also. Might be a little on the heavy side, but still a great camera all in all.

Jeff

 

[Stephanie Brim]

Do you have a lens hood for use with your 124? I'd try one. It should help with the flare.

One thing you have to get out of your head is that soft = bad. For portraits, for the most part, a little softness isn't so bad of a thing. Unless you're trying to be able to count every pore in someone's face, it doesn't hurt for the lens to have a bit of softness. Now, I'm not trying to push you into the realm of real soft focus lenses here...but you may want to consider that.

I have a Mamiya TLR with the normal 80mm f/2.8 Sekor-S. That lens, when stopped down to no farther than f/4, is pretty sharp. When wide open at f/2.8 it's pleasantly soft, but there isn't a whole bunch of DOF.

 

[agphotography]

Well I wasn't looking to spend a ton of money on a kit either but I managed to win a Bronica ETR-Si kit w/ a prism, 2 lenses, a grip, 1 120 back and a polaroid back for under $200. I'd say that's a pretty reasonable price

 

[Q.G.]

That's pretty good. Congratulations!

 

[Robert Budding]

"Priorities are portability (not really excited about the Mamiya TLR), close focusing for portraits, lens sharpness and cost (or lack thereof). I'd prefer a 6x6 format."

I wouldn't recommend an RB if you want something portable or if you want to hand hold. THe Bronica SQ series is excellent for 6x6. And the Bronica ETRSi is a steal in 645. Both have leaf shutter lenses, so you get flash sync at all speeds.

 

[mooseontheloose]

I ended up upgrading to a Bronica SQ after wanting to move up from my collection of TLRs. It was the only choice really, wanting to stay in the 6x6 format, but not being able to afford the Hasselblad option. I haven't really done any portraits, so I can't comment on the lens choices for that, but I've been very happy with my 50-80-150 lens combo, and I find the camera very handholdable -- it's not much heavier than a TLR, with the waist-level finder.

BTW, I think the images you posted look fine (at least on my computer) -- not sure about the flare and softness you're worried about, although I know that it's an issue with the TLRs.

 

[Pumal]

Mamiya M645

 

[Steve Smith]

I wouldn't recommend an RB if you want something portable or if you want to hand hold.

But everyone is different. I hand hold mine most of the time.


Steve.

 

[Mark Fisher]

Mamiya TLR (insanely portable due to tiny lenses, close focussing and small tripod requirement) is not a bad choice other than dealing with parallax. Bronica SQ series is also a good choice. The RB misses on portability (you should really see it in person). Laastly, an older hasselblad is worth saving up for a bit longer. I went from a Rolleicord, to a Mayiya TLR to a Pentax 645 to the Hasselblad. It would have been easier and cheaper to save a bit longer and just start there.

 

[AmsterdamMartin]

I see you won a Bronica, that is a great machine and you are fine now.
Just to answer your initial question: in regard of quality vs price, any beat up old Hasselblad is a fantastic opportunity as well, for anyone asking the same question.

 

[Steve Smith]

I went from a Rolleicord, to a Mayiya TLR to a Pentax 645 to the Hasselblad. It would have been easier and cheaper to save a bit longer and just start there.

That's always good advice in hindsight. I went from Rolleicord to ETRS to RB67. I should have by-passed the ETRS and gone straight to the RB67 but when you want something now and not later, the amount of money available dictates what you buy.

I think that if I had a bit more cash at the time I would have bought a Bronica SQ instead of the ETRS and I probably would not have had the desire for an extra 10mm of length on the negative which the RB67 offers.


Steve.

 

[Sully75]

Thanks for the advice! For the record, these were the good pictures, I was pleased with them. But there are a lot of wasters, anything that's very high contrast. I do have the lens hood, it's helped some. I also bought a close up lens but it's pretty frustrating to use, I never even took a picture with it.

Bronica sounds good, I'll look into it. When I say a budget, I mean, A BUDGET. I'm in school. But have some stuff to sell so I might be able to make it work. I'll look for that beat up hasselblad too.

 

[Sully75]

flare

ps: you want some flare? I got your flare right here!

Luckily the picture fails on other grounds....

 

[lxdude]

Looks like a light leak to me.

 

[John Wiegerink]

I've never had a problem with sharpness on any of the Yashica TLR's I've owned as long as the lens is in good shape(not all scratched up/fungus) and the focus is adjusted right. A lens hood is important on almost any camera when shooting toward bright light.
Please don't rule out a good Mamiya C220 or C330 as a near perfect walk-about professional camera. I think the C330 Professional is an OUTSTANDING camera for the money. You can do extreme close-ups with no special equipment, has very good parallax correction, has accessory porro-finder and prism, and a whole series of some very, very fine lenses. The earlier lenses are single coated, but still very sharp. While the latest(all black) versions are extremely good in the contrast/sharpness department. One thing to remember about the Mamiya TLR's is the fact that there is much, much less to go wrong with them. No moving mirror, no motor drive, no electronics. Just a KISS type camera. Now, if you found one that was used professionally you might have problems later on, but one that was used by and average person would last forever. Oh, and they are almost silent!
Now, you might be able to find a Hasselblad 500C or 500CM pretty cheap, but don't expect to pick up any Hassey accessories on the cheap side. I have used Bronica, Pentax 67, Mamiya (M645, RB67, C220, C33, C330), Rollei's (TLR's), Yashica's, Russian 'blads and Pentacon clones, Practisix's and even and old Norita. Of all of those I'd say the Mamiya TLR is the KING(or Queen if you prefer) for the most "bang for the buck". If you were to buy a late C330 Professional with a late all black 80mm f2.8 I'm sure you wouldn't make a statement like "not really excited" about Mamiya TLR's. Of course, if you have more money than brains you can buy whatever excites you, but that's not what you ask. The above is just my opinion of course! JohnW

 

[benjiboy]

Looks like a light leak to me.

Just what I was thinking.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Sometimes certain types of film(cheaper foreign stuff with little or no anti-halation layer) can be a little flarey in the film base itself. I just read that you used a hood so that helps. Of course a hood means nothing if the light source is include in the shot. I have a beautiful Hasselblad SWC that you don't even want to get any bright lights included in the shot(flare city), but I know that and work around it. I still love that camera and if I used it everyday I'd then upgrade to a later one with at least "T" coating, but I don't use it everyday so I'll save my money. JohnW

 

[benjiboy]

I've never had a problem with sharpness on any of the Yashica TLR's I've owned as long as the lens is in good shape(not all scratched up/fungus) and the focus is adjusted right. A lens hood is important on almost any camera when shooting toward bright light.
Please don't rule out a good Mamiya C220 or C330 as a near perfect walk-about professional camera. I think the C330 Professional is an OUTSTANDING camera for the money. You can do extreme close-ups with no special equipment, has very good parallax correction, has accessory porro-finder and prism, and a whole series of some very, very fine lenses. The earlier lenses are single coated, but still very sharp. While the latest(all black) versions are extremely good in the contrast/sharpness department. One thing to remember about the Mamiya TLR's is the fact that there is much, much less to go wrong with them. No moving mirror, no motor drive, no electronics. Just a KISS type camera. Now, if you found one that was used professionally you might have problems later on, but one that was used by and average person would last forever. Oh, and they are almost silent!
Now, you might be able to find a Hasselblad 500C or 500CM pretty cheap, but don't expect to pick up any Hassey accessories on the cheap side. I have used Bronica, Pentax 67, Mamiya (M645, RB67, C220, C33, C330), Rollei's (TLR's), Yashica's, Russian 'blads and Pentacon clones, Practisix's and even and old Norita. Of all of those I'd say the Mamiya TLR is the KING(or Queen if you prefer) for the most "bang for the buck". If you were to buy a late C330 Professional with a late all black 80mm f2.8 I'm sure you wouldn't make a statement like "not really excited" about Mamiya TLR's. Of course, if you have more money than brains you can buy whatever excites you, but that's not what you ask. The above is just my opinion of course! JohnW

I agree entirely with these remarks, I've been using Mamiya TLRs for more than twenty years that I bought second hand, if the O.P.wants a reliable workmanlike medium format system that's quiet, will sync with flash at all speeds that has interchangeable lenses of pro quality that can be bought for very little these days this is the one, It may not impress the neighbours or be male jewellery, but as sensible upgrade from a Yashicamat that's capable of high quality 20"X 16" IMHO it can't be beaten.

 

[Sully75]

Looks like a light leak to me.

I don't think it's a light leak, that's light coming through the window behind him. I guess maybe that's more of an issue with older cameras? I'm used to modern lenses. This is with the lens hood.

I'll think about the Mamiya TLR then. I had one once before from ebay, a huge kit with all the lenses but they were all mucked up, none of the aperture rings turned and I ended up returning it.

I do find with the Yashica that it's kind of awkward to use in awkward positions. It's great for portraits standing up and fairly standard picture taking but if I'm trying to get a different angle, above or below, it's frustrating. That's a reason I was sort of hoping to get away from the TLR. But checking out Hasselblad prices, it's not going to happen, that much is clear.

 

[janezek]

Pentacon Six might not be the best decision. Most of these cameras were manufactured in East Germany before 1989 and unfortunately have not good reputation for being very reliable. There were a lot of reports about problems with fim transport (among other problems).

 

[John Wiegerink]

Sully75
I don't think I'd be very happy either with a camera outfit that I couldn't set the aperture on. Not even if it was a Hasselblad or Rollei outfit. From my experience I have never found the Mamiya TLR lenses any less reliable than my Hasselblad lenses and the Seiko shutters are really very good. I did have a very old 80mm Mamiya once that had some starting of seperation, but that lens looked like it had went through two World Wars. I also agree with janezek above when it comes to Russian and East Block cameras. When they work, they usually work very good. Trouble is, they usually don't work or they don't work all that long. At least that was my experience with the Russian 'Blad copies.
The only thing that used to "slightly" bug me with my C330 was trying to follow moving object while looking down into the finder. I always wanted to go the other way. I solved that problem and bought a prism and lived happily ever after. End of story! JohnW

 

[benjiboy]

I really like the fact that I can get my Mamiya C330F and three lenses, the 55MM wide angle the 80 mm standard and the 180mm telephoto for a days shooting in a camera bag that measures only 8" high X 9" wide X 7 1/2" deep, I don't know any other medium format system that you can do that with.