What's Missing? Your dream photo mag ...

DallisDandy · Mar 25, 2005

Chazzy said:
I'm quite sure that my "dream photo magazine" would be a commercial disaster. ...Lots of portraiture and fine art nudes. There would be some historical articles. <b>Nothing digital.</b> Reproductions would be top-notch, and the price of a subscription would have to reflect that. In short, I would probably be the only subscriber.

Naw, I'd subscribe ... but I wonder if there is a big age divide between the silver and light folks vs. the digital fans? I wonder if my kids will think film cameras are like dial phones and typewriters. (But don't worry, I've already got the oldest sucking up developer fumes in the spare bath/darkroom ;-)

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 25, 2005

Monophoto's answer is probably closest to mine. I'd want the printing quality of _LensWork_, the columns and portfolios of _B&W Magazine_ (US) but maybe with a little more of the adventurousness of _Aperture_, and the technical articles of the old _Camera and Darkroom_.

MenacingTourist · Mar 25, 2005

blaze-on said:
The one I most get excited about each year is Communication Arts Photography Annual. Some awesome work, albeit primarily commercial. But still inspiring.

Sixteen bucks for that one issue, or subscribe to the mag yearly for about $50...and get the Illustration, Design and Advertising annuals along with the monthly publications which are also worth an hour or two at your local coffee shop.

The best $50 or so bucks any creative individual can spend on a mag.

FWIW, if you had your "dream" mag...you'd eventually want something else.

I love Communication Arts but let the subscription laps since all my employers have had a subscription. It was a valuable resource while I was in college and would recomend it as a gift for anyone in a college art program.

bjorke · Mar 25, 2005

Dead Link Removed

Already exists
(which I mentioned in this post elsewhere)

No camera articles.
No darkroom articles.
No lens reviews.
No worries about technology whatsoever.

It's about the pictures, without a lot more hand-wringing than that.

djklmnop · Mar 25, 2005

Landscape photography with a scratch-and-sniff sticker. I want to smell the landscape too!

Cheryl Jacobs · Mar 25, 2005

I'd love to see a magazine that placed far more emphasis on the emotion and thought behind the work than on the equipment used to create it.

Lee Shively · Mar 26, 2005

I just picked up the latest issue of B&W and noticed they are planning a photo yearbook. It sounded great. It involved a photo contest, however, so it would really be the winners of the competition with selected other entries. I guess that's okay, but not ideal. Then I read the submissions requirements. No prints. CD's only. Also the rules of the contest say that everyone recognizable in the photos must have signed a model release and there will be no exceptions. It could only mean one thing: photos submitted can be used for promotion of the magazine. Oh well. Chaulk up another good intention gone to hell.

steve simmons · Mar 27, 2005

I am not associated with B&W but I do not see the problem with promoting a magazine. Also, in order to publish a photo that is not a news event a release is required. So even B&W needs the release to put the photo in their magazine. It is standard for a publication to be able to show he winners. I do not see the problem

steve simmons

Dave Parker · Mar 27, 2005

As a publishers of magazines, in a previeous industry, I can tell you, doing a magzine and keeping it a float, is far more difficult that you can imagine, I hate the amount of ad's in the current magazine industry, but also know that in order to pay for the magazine, the ad's must be there and the hot topics unfortunately are digital, so we will continue to see an increase in digital in most of the current magazines, because that is what sells to the majority of buyers. I don't currently subscribe anylonger to any photo mags, due to the fact and the majority of issues that come out, have absolutely nothing I want to read about, myself personally would say my 'Dream' Mag would be well balanced in thirds, with photo showcase, techniques and locations, and less about the equipment, the equipment articles have been pretty useless for years now. I would far rather drop into the B&N or Borders and thumb through and pick up the mags that I want, instead of throwing 90% of a subscription in the book shelf where it will never be read. I also think the magazine industry really needs to get its shipping and delivery schedule back in line, it seems to really be hit and miss on when a magazine will show up now a days! I always hear the excuse to the late delivery is the mails fault, which yes, mail does play a small part at times, but not as often as the current publishers would like you to believe, I would also like to see the favortisim to be less in the mag industry, and see more from real life photogs and not just the commercial successful types, regular columns are fine, but it seems as if every magazine I pick up, is always filled with articles from the same guys/gals that have been prevelant for years with no information from the guys/gals who are photographers and not salesmen. It will be interesting to watch the growth of the new magazine that has been mentioned here, but It will be a tough road to hoe, to ensure the growth and success of it.

The magazine industry is a difficult one at best, and a financial money pit at worst, the buying public is very fickle and the ebb and tide is dependant on the public who buys the magazines..

So being honest with you, I don't know that the 'Dream' magazine is really possible.
Dave

rbarker · Mar 27, 2005

Having a model release from those people who are recognizable in the photos doesn't necessarily mean the images can be used to promote the magazine. That aspect is a function of what publication rights are granted to the magazine by the photographer. Check the "fine print" closely in that respect, as the wording in many submission forms virtually gives away the image.

While having the model release would support "commercial use" of the image, a potentially more significant result is that "street", travel, and similar types of photography will be virtually eliminated in favor of staged, more-commercial images. B+W may just be trying to be cautious by requiring model releases - probably not a bad idea in today's overly-litigious society.

jd callow · Mar 27, 2005

bjorke said:
Dead Link Removed

Gee Bjorke do you think we couldn't read it if it was a normal font size? Though I am glad that you were able to slide another plug in for you website.

the Shots Website said:
(Note: Color photographs appear in b&w in the magazine)

Kind of blows it for me...

I have become jaded against most commercial periodicals. As mentioned before the fight to stay afloat often creates some unhappy compromises. I think the web offers the best hope for the magazine format. No mater how good a print publication is the web has greater potential for reproduction. The relatively low cost of publishing on the web can remove much of the compromises ruining traditional media. The main problem for me is indexing...

rbarker · Mar 27, 2005

Satinsnow said:
. . . I also think the magazine industry really needs to get its shipping and delivery schedule back in line, it seems to really be hit and miss on when a magazine will show up now a days! I always hear the excuse to the late delivery is the mails fault, which yes, mail does play a small part at times, but not as often as the current publishers would like you to believe . . .

Having been the editor in chief of several fair-sized (~100K subscribers) magazines in the past, I can attest to problems with the U.S. Mail. I've seen variations of up to two weeks in actual delivery, depending on the efficiency and consistency of the regional PO that the publication goes through. Most magazines get sent at "Periodical" rates (more accurately called "Second Class" mail in the past IMHO), which doesn't recieve the same level of attention or service from the PO. Bundling by ZIP, etc. makes it more specialized at the PO, and more dependant on the regional PO's staff who know the ropes. If the one or two people there who know their stuff are sick or on vacation, delivery is often delayed as a result.

I do agree, however, that publishing has become a tough business - particularly for smaller magazines. Success, I think, is a matter of having a strong editorial policy and knowing where the line is between the editor (content) and the publisher (sales and PR). Strong editorial policy and adherance to common editorial standards will keep the content in tune with what the readership wants, often evolving over time. Editorial standards ensure that the articles are timely, germain, well-written, well-edited, and cohesive. Product reviews, in particular, need to be written to standards appropriate for the product group, so comparisons can be made to previously-reviewed similar products.

From an economic perspective, perhaps unfortunately, having an ad ratio of close to 50% (i.e. half the pages are ads) is usually ideal. Subscription fees are usually a small part of the overall revenue of the publication - often to the chagrin of the subscribers, who usually believe they are paying for the magazine. Eliminate the ad revenue, and the subscription price would be unrealistic.

Personally, I don't expect that all of a magazine's content will deal with topics that I'm personally interested in, but strong editorial policy will keep the overall content interesting and of consistent quality. Magazines that depend too much on "contributed" articles (i.e. where no or fees are paid to the authors) often suffer greatly from editorial inconsistency. The trick is to establish the editorial policy and "mission" such that it includes a sufficient demographic to be both an editorial and a business success, while not being too broad. That's not easy to accomplish.

Dave Parker · Mar 27, 2005

rbarker said:
Having been the editor in chief of several fair-sized (~100K subscribers) magazines in the past, I can attest to problems with the U.S. Mail. I've seen variations of up to two weeks in actual delivery, depending on the efficiency and consistency of the regional PO that the publication goes through. Most magazines get sent at "Periodical" rates (more accurately called "Second Class" mail in the past IMHO), which doesn't recieve the same level of attention or service from the PO. Bundling by ZIP, etc. makes it more specialized at the PO, and more dependant on the regional PO's staff who know the ropes. If the one or two people there who know their stuff are sick or on vacation, delivery is often delayed as a result.

The problems with the mail is well documented, but the area I was talking about(maybe I could have been clearer) is especially with the smaller publications, is the lack of making sure you meet the deadlines period with no excuses, the subscription prices from many of these smaller publications are high, as the magazine industry goes, I consider $7-$12 bucks an issue to be quite high for a magazine, if your going to charge a permium price for your specialty magazine, then you really need to make sure it gets out on time.

I agree with you Ralph 100%, that the editioral content has to be strigent and stick to what the goals of the magazine is geared tword, I contribute to several publications, but I also know what their editorial content is directed tword, and make sure my submissions stick within their guidelines.

As stated, being in the publishing business now a days is difficult at best, it is not a road, I would venture down again, I am glad I did it, but really glad I don't do it anylonger!

One thing to remember is the internet DOES make a difference in the success of demise of publications, most of the information contained on websites like this one, is far better than what I see in most publications now a days, and I think that e-publishing is going to be nothing but bigger in the future as it allows the lowest cost to readership content available.

Dave

James Bleifus · Mar 27, 2005

I read Lenswork, B&W, Black and White, Black and White Enthusiast, Camera Arts, View Camera, Mono, Photographer's Forum and others. I enjoy them all but that's because I'm interested in the images they publish and photographer profiles, not how-to articles. I feel how-to information is more properly disseminated through the internet, particularly sites like APUG from people actually doing it, than in magazines. So my ideal magazine has lots of pictures and NO how-to articles.

Cheers,

James

rbarker · Mar 27, 2005

Dave - I agree that smaller pubs often tend be lax about editorial and production deadlines. With larger mags, your time on the presses is scheduled months in advance, and if you miss your deadline, you're just totally screwed. Smaller pubs usually deal with smaller printing houses that have more flexibility. But, it's a flexibility that should be used only in dire emergencies.

I have mixed feelings about Web publishing, though. While I agree that it solves many issues facing paper pubs (I was the EIC for a webzine startup a few years back), there are also numerous drawbacks from an editorial perspective. The writing has to be much tighter, so it's often difficult to go into the depth that may be required for a particular topic. For example, a six-page, in-depth product review can work on paper, but would be way too long when transferred to a screen - too laborious to read. Then, there's the whole daily updates matter, and the need to drive daily traffic on the website to support ad rates. The nature of the Web ends up giving the publication a different dynamic, and I'm not sure all of that is positive from an editorial perspective. Time will tell, I suppose.

modafoto · Mar 27, 2005

My dream:

"The Fetish and BDSM Analog Photographer Weekly"

A weekly magazine fully illustrated and being 300+ pages

Morten

Lee Shively · Mar 28, 2005

I realize we live in a society that sues at the drop of a penny-to-be-had, but the requirement of a signed model release from everyone recognizable in a photograph is most confusing to me. For instance, it precludes the publication of virtually every photograph made by Magnum photographers. Their website sells photographs for publication and specifically states model releases do not exist for most (or maybe, all) of the photos they sell. Despite this, many of these photos are published worldwide over and over again. I doubt Winogrand had model releases from the hundreds of thousands of subjects he photographed obsessively throughout his life. Yet his photographs continue to be published in books and magazines and exhibited in galleries.

I have been under the impression that model releases were only necessary when a photograph is being used for commercial purposes--promotion of a product, etc. That indicates B&W wants to be able to use the photos for promotional purposes. As someone pointed out, there's nothing wrong with promoting your product as long as that's clear ahead of time.

Dave Parker · Mar 28, 2005

Any magazine I have ever worked with has always requied a signed release for anyone recognizable in a photo, and when I was publishing, we always required a release for the same.

There are many laws in place that were not around when many of the photos we see published over and over.

But if you read the fine print in most magazines now adays, you will see them mention the model release issue, it really comes down to the perception of promotion, if your a photographer, then the product being promoted is the picture and hence would require a signed release, even if just in the context of the contest.

Most contests that I have been involved in both as a participant as well as a judge have always required you allow your photographs to be published at a later date, in consideration of promoting the contest, and just the act of publishing the photo gallery of the winners, could be considerd publication for promotion of the magazine IE; 'This years winners contest in this issue' on the cover of the magazine, to promote the consumer to purchase the magazine to see who the winner is.

Dave

NikoSperi · Mar 28, 2005

Surreptiously, and after many hours and efforts to get into position, and make sufficient eye contact with the people, our hero has finally managed to become a "wall-flower" - forgotten, a non-participating presence. Slowly, he reaches for the Leica he treasures for the fact the shutter is imperceptible in all but the quietest of venues, focuses on the café scene evolving in front of him... mentally that is as the camera is already hyperfocally set. The moment occurs, and a faint *click - whirr* (1/15th @ f/2) garners no attention... until

Ok EVERYONE... Your attention please! Here is a stack of model releases. If you would all be so kind as to SIGN on your way out.

I'm perplexed by the requirement for model releases for any identifiable face, when you include a submission category such as Street, Photo Journalism, Documentary... I have some shots I would like to submit of children in the Maldives. Can no do, can I.

In short, for those street shots, best become Jeff Wall and stage it all with actors or else...

Dave Parker · Mar 28, 2005

I have no idea of the law in Italy, but for the most part in the states, it would be best, if you don't want to run the risk of problems in the future, unless you have a major newspaper mast head on your resume' and it comes under the guise of 'journalism' the general public seems to have far more awareness of what photographs can mean and do in this 'sue' hungry society now a days..

we even see the paparazzi getting sued and loosing now a days, more often than in the past..

and unfortunately the magazines have become a lucrative target for a good many of people.

Dave

NikoSperi · Mar 28, 2005

Sadly, I agree with you. I think the B&W example used here is simply a case of CYA on their behalf. The key word being "sadly".

bjorke · Mar 28, 2005

SHOTS

mrcallow said:
Gee Bjorke do you think we couldn't read it if it was a normal font size? Though I am glad that you were able to slide another plug in for you website.

If there were no purpose to altering the font size, that capability probably wouldn't be present in the forum software. Feel free to petition Sean Or use lynx and you won't have to worry about all those pesky graphics when you visit photo sites.

I made it big because I felt that what had been posted previously was mostly references not to photo mags but to camera mags.

As for referencing my website, I had by coincidence unrelated to APUG posted at length on that very topic (i.e., why I like Dead Link Removed magazine) a day or so before -- why should I repeat myself? Aren't links what HTML is for?

Though truth to tell I'm very much of the school that believes that if you don't tell people that work exists, they won't go looking for it. Promoting work is a part of creating work (wasn't it Marcel Duchamp who claimed it was an artist's duty to their work to promote it?). In this respect, magazines are much like the web, or at least they can be. A means to promote and to plug the ideas that make give work an individual identity.

jd callow · Mar 28, 2005

bjorke said:
wasn't it Marcel Duchamp who claimed it was an artist's duty to their work to promote it?

I was poking fun and your reference is quite appropriate.

roteague · Mar 29, 2005

rbarker said:
Personally, I don't expect that all of a magazine's content will deal with topics that I'm personally interested in, but strong editorial policy will keep the overall content interesting and of consistent quality. Magazines that depend too much on "contributed" articles (i.e. where no or fees are paid to the authors) often suffer greatly from editorial inconsistency.

I accept that as well Ralph, however, I feel that a magazine should at least TRY to support all its readers. For example, I have had to quit reading one of my all time favorite magazines, Outdoor Photography, because of the digital content. I don't have a problem with digital content, I often read the Photoshop articles myself, but, what really angered me was when they ran an article about buying a camera and did not mention any film cameras, when they won't review the Nikon F6 (but the did review the digital equivalent), won't review the Fuji Velvia 100 or the other new Fuji films.

jamnut · Jul 3, 2005

Uh oh. Satinsnow is here, which is good. But, how long before that idiot "inkedmagazine" is here? Help us.

What's Missing? Your dream photo mag ...

DallisDandy

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

MenacingTourist

bjorke

djklmnop

Cheryl Jacobs

Lee Shively

steve simmons

Dave Parker

rbarker

jd callow

Moderator

rbarker

Dave Parker

James Bleifus

rbarker

modafoto

Lee Shively

Dave Parker

NikoSperi

Dave Parker

NikoSperi

bjorke

jd callow

Moderator

roteague

jamnut

What's Missing? Your dream photo mag ...

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