Aggie said:
If you quote me put all the quote in. I did not say it was exactly that, it could be that as much as they are gone. WHO KNOWS. I do know that out of the 33 posts you have made here, 31 of them have been saying all film is going really fast, and no more supplies will be avialable soon. I would like to quote my grandmother who lived to be 97. Auf fa sodon (danish spelling is wrong). No matter how many of the smaller players like J&C tell us the straight story, you are ranting on about everyone should get a freezer and empty shelves NOW. As has been mentioned this is short sighted and will really bring about the death of film if everyone has a few years supply in their freezers. I do not subscribe to the chicken little theory of economics. Pete can cry wolf all he wants, but I would rather support those who are really moving the market for us. People like J&C!
There are three major points in my posts: the trends, about the stocking up the films from those that seems currently have financial problems, and the current status of Forte. I don't think I need to post any more after reading some later posts.
Sandy pointed out the megatrend here and I agree with him on this (but not on stocking up the film):
"... I have simply described what I consider to be reality. The market for film and papers is in free fall and the choices available for traditional work are rapidly being reduced. How you choose to deal with this situation is entirely up to you....".
I like his wording: "How you choose to deal with this situation is entirely up to you". (Sandy has a good writing style, IMO)
Will stocking up now cause any trouble for Forte or Ilford?
"Not necessarily, Aggie. I bought a 5 year supply of Ilford film, but that doesn't mean I won't buy more to replace what I use so long as it's available. I'll just rotate the stuff.
I don't see the downside to having a cushion -- either for me, or the manufacturer." (Poco)
One good example of stocking up (Michael Smith):
"BTW, I recently tested some of the Super-XX film from Michael's cache. Although more than ten years old at this time it is still very good film, with a B+F of about log .30, and outstanding potential for expansion and contraction development. I think he made a wise decision to buy up the remaining stock because when you look at all of the variables, i.e. his printing process, type of development, etc., and evaluate the Super-XX curves, it is very clear that Super-XX fills his needs almost perfectly. Just shows you that great artists have outstanding control and understanding of their materials." (Sandy)
Another good example of stocking up (Mark Citret):
"Sounds like that's the phrase that caused the misunderstanding. It's easy to read differently than intended because I think many of us wonder if squirreling away a significant amount of material might be our only certain hedge against having no material at all and look for direction from the example of others. To wit (only some years ago), Mark Citret bought the remaining stock of the Kodak paper he liked so much from which he has continued to be able to make his 'vellum' prints ever since. Perhaps some are on a hair trigger to find a way to lessen the uncertainty of traditional material's availability in this tumultous era of digitization." (jovo)
The current status about Forte:
"Re Forte - they are in financial trouble again, two german sellers talked about it in public - one is Herr Loeffler of phototec.de, the other is Mirko Boedecker of fotoimpex.de. The two don´t agree with each other in terms of future prospects for Forte..
To coat a batch of paper you need the order and the money to finance the coating - that´s some ten thousand Euros per run, depending on the size of the batch and the size of the machine.
Someone recently said that Forte depended on payments in advance, before the material was actually produced. Forte seems to have one big problem - they buy the raw material in the West, paper base (there isn´t much left but Schoeller in Osnabrueck and Muellersohn), sensitizing materials, whatever. They pay big money for it, the same or probably more Ilford or Agfa pay for that stuff. But their prices are lower.
When I walked by the Forte booth I saw nothing, I didn´t actually noticed anything there until I was some dozen meters away - there wasn´t much on display, so I didn´t turn around.". (rjr)
Last paragraph in Aggie's post is kind of funny:
"I do not subscribe to the chicken little theory of economics. Pete can cry wolf all he wants, but I would rather support those who are really moving the market for us. People like J&C!"
Are you really in a serious discussion or just picking a line to stand for? If the latter I have to admire your braveness as a soldier for J&C. I really cannot find any solid points in your posts here. Obviously as a soldier, you are not ready yet.
By the way, in this post I did not response to J&C. There is no need to stand at two sides every time, fight for things not important and not interesting
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