What's going on??

[Peter Schrager]

I've noticed several long time members going off on new comers questions . ..what's up with that?
If you want this place to be just nasty go start your own forum called NASTY ANALOG PHOTOGRAPHY. .PLAY NICE PEOPLE THIS IS BORING ...
Have a nice day
Peter

 

[BrianShaw]

I've noticed too. Hopefully they will get a grip.

 

[macfred]

... but mind, if the newcomer is a delightful young lady, they are all attentive and back on the scene ...

 

[AgX]

It depends. Apug is a good place to get specific questions answered. Also a place to get directions.
But Apug is to my understanding no online tutorial. If that is what you are hinting at, Peter.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Peter, I see the same questions over and over and over. A simple search first might help.

PE

 

[Loren Sattler]

But Photo Engineer, new participants do not know how the forum works or how useful the search functions can be. You learn that with time spent on the forum.

 

[Ricardo Miranda]

new participants do not know how the forum works

I would say that new forum members might not know how PC works, or how to Google, or how to do a basic search.
But, I would assume that any 18 year old today in the privileged Western World should know how to carry out a basic search and they don't get any extra points for just being lazy.
Forums aren't the most suitable way to carry our an ABC course in Photography.
Though they are great to clarify a point, or a specific problem or to convey one's opinion.

 

[Down Under]

As one who has at times been somewhat less than kind in some of my posts (a trait I dislike in myself, and am actively working on to try to change), I find myself getting annoyed by the increased number of "what is a filter?" questions, or questions which point to the OP being too lazy to do a little work to find the information for themselves. Notably so (in the latter case) when the query posted clearly indicates the answers will be used in study courses, and the query is basically meant to save the poster the effort of doing any research or even basic reading, or else they have a camera or other gear they want to sell and are "fishing" for the best prices to post on Ebay. I have noted a few instances of these two in the recent past.

Or (as sometimes appears in the Business forum) posts that provide very little details or else information that is obviously highly selective, but the poster obviously wants detailed specific advice without having to pay some legal eagle to work out the finer points. I am all for not giving lawyers any more money than they already earn, but to me this seems just another case of "free fishing".

Most of us, I think, are keen to respond to specific queries, especially when they are intelligently worded and relevant to the genre. Few of us would turn away from helping someone who has a genuine query or wants to resolve a specific problem.

Opinions are an entirely different matter, especially so when they are amusing or entertaining.

We do after all live in a "democratic" system (please, let's not go off on any tangents on this point), and as I see it, everyone is entitled to my opinion...

 

[BrianShaw]

If one dislikes the question then why can't one go mute?

I find it rather easy to put annoying people on "ignore" to avoid frustration... and if a question in a post is annoying I move on to something more in line with my interests. I never understood the folks who feel the need to say something about everything.

 

[MattKing]

Grumpiness seems to come and go.
Two things though - with respect to macfred's comment, it may be that some "delightful young lad(ies)" ask for help in ways that encourage response.
And I wonder if this belongs as much in the "Feedback and Discussion" subforum as here.

 

[Sirius Glass]

We should remember that we were not born with this knowledge and that we had to learn it from someone.

 

[summicron1]

Geeze folks -- this is a hobby and a skill. It is the duty of people who have the skill to pass it on, lest it die out.

Passing on a skill takes patience and kindness. No matter how often you are asked the same question, you need to remember that, to the questioner, it is a new question and vital to know.
That's how I do things, anyway.

 

[MattKing]

Geeze folks -- this is a hobby and a skill. It is the duty of people who have the skill to pass it on, lest it die out.

Passing on a skill takes patience and kindness. No matter how often you are asked the same question, you need to remember that, to the questioner, it is a new question and vital to know.
That's how I do things, anyway.

+1
Although it would be nice to have a set of easily found and easily referred to references.

 

[Truzi]

I suspect northern hemisphere APUGers get a bit of cabin fever, too. In the time I've been on APUG, it seems to get a bit testy (or, rather, more testy) just before the Spring weather finally arrives.

<snip>Passing on a skill takes patience and kindness. No matter how often you are asked the same question, you need to remember that, to the questioner, it is a new question and vital to know.
That's how I do things, anyway.

Very good point. Imagine how a teacher must field the same questions with every new batch of students. Yes, I know, this is the internet - but being able to search well is a skill.

 

[AgX]

I often advise to read one of those many basis handbooks. In one case I got a reply as "Old man, who is still reading books??"

Another aspect of this topic of how to treat newcomers is them vanishing. I experienced several cases where such member got a lengthy reply from me at the second day but never ever logged in again after his first day, thus never read my reply.

 

[AgX]

....it would be nice to have a set of easily found and easily referred to references.

We tried to establish such.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I found that a short concise answer is much better. Long answers put people off and get into too much detail. If they can use the short explanation and they need clarification or more detail they will come back and ask.

 

[Ian Grant]

+1
Although it would be nice to have a set of easily found and easily referred to references.

I agree, and I think that this runs parallel to the thread on (there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Part of the problem is if these questions aren't answered by the more knowledgeable members then often the quality of the information or advice is poor, and the issue is many have grown waery of posting replies to the same questions time after time.

So yes a reference section for the less experienced and people just starting with film and darkroom work would be invaluable, then rather than long duplicated replies links could be posted.

Ian

 

[Helinophoto]

Sometimes, this page can be a good answer in itself
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=let+me+google+that+for+you

If someone asks something that is very easily found trough google, then google it, and put it into letmegooglethatforyou and post the link ^^

Being nasty doesn't help anyone and it might even shun new blood from the analog-community and is counter-productive.

I normally simply don't reply if I have nothing in particular to contribute with.

 

[pdeeh]

Sometimes, this page can be a good answer in itself
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=let+me+google+that+for+you
If someone asks something that is very easily found trough google, then google it, and put it into letmegooglethatforyou and post the link ^^
Being nasty doesn't help anyone and it might even shun new blood from the analog-community and is counter-productive.

I have to say, I think LMGTFY easily comes across as snarky and rude, and I know at least one large/popular forum where using it is explicitly banned in the terms of service.

As for the repetitive questions, I'm with Matt, summicron1 and BrianShaw on this. Answer or don't answer, but please don't be rude or contemptuous when someone asks a question which you think they "ought" to have found out for themselves.

The fact is that there are people on here with thousands of posts and decades of good experience and great skill; that doesn't, however, mean that those people have thereby gained a right to tell others (with stern moral zeal) what they "should" (or shouldn't) be doing, and is certainly no excuse for being peremptory or unpleasant, however much you feel provoked by what you see as the asininity or laziness of the question.

I sometimes find myself feeling I have to PM newcomers when they have been bombarded with negative responses, to try and encourage them to ignore the ass-hats and bigots and stick around.

It's important to remember that assuming a newcomer is aligned with one's own vision of how photography should be practised is fraught with danger (example: the assumption that negatives will be printed and not scanned; I'd be amazed if more than a small percentage of film sold worldwide ever sees the inside of a darkroom. Or that everyone is signed up to traditional photographic virtues of - say - sharpness, archival preservation of prints and negatives, or absolute consistency of process.)

Or just, as Mr. Schrager said, more succintly, play nice ...

 

[blockend]

It's best to be charitable with replies. It's hard sometimes but there's no such thing as a silly question.

 

[Helinophoto]

I have to say, I think LMGTFY easily comes across as snarky and rude, and I know at least one large/popular forum where using it is explicitly banned in the terms of service.

I guess, as with everything else, it's all in the delivery.

Smileys and using common sense netiquette gets across things like irony, happiness, a positive poke etc.
Slamming a let me google that for you with no further explanation, or accompanies by a harsh remark, is rude in itself, the let me google that, can be a a fun way to point people towards information.

Sometimes, you can insert a pretty complex search as well, the let me google that, since it's showing the actual typing, can actually teach people how to google more efficiently as well. ^^
For example:
http://letmegooglethat.com/?q=site:...collapsible"+AND+"aperture"+AND+"clean"+-dual

It's all in how people deliver information; I've seen very knowledgeable people both here and rangefinderforum, who seems incapable to understand that typing out a correct and informative reply, can sound like you are actually putting someone in their place, or treating them as children.

 

[eddie]

Communities that aren't welcoming to newcomers eventually become marginalized, or die out completely. We should keep this in mind, if we want APUG to continue to thrive.

 

[greg zinselmeier]

well, i do not write much here due to the fact, most of my comments I would make are already said, and usually with better grace than I could muster. I do read this site, but over all I think "new comers" aka newbies need to realize that on line "temperament" is not the same as in person!! That can be said everywhere on the WWW, not just here on apug. people need to realize society is becoming more course/rough. we all may lament that fact, but it is a reality of our society. That are many people here who are completely gracious with their time and thoughts, they are very caring individuals, BUT they are the exception, NOT the rule. newbies need to toughen up the teats!! that may sound crass, but unfortunately, if you are going to ask questions, that already have been asked here on APUG, say al least 50 times( just look in a search) certain people get annoyed, they feel like they are in Groundhog day, Over and over the same questions keep popping up??? please use a search first before asking ??? I have learned to use the search box more and more, and if you noticed, I do join in on conversation or reply . . . .. . . .. MOST, if not ALL Photographic questions ALREADY HAVE ASKED AND ANSWERED!!!!! if not here, then photo.net, RFF, or . . . .. any other "chat room" type place. just my two cents.

 

[greg zinselmeier]

"I do join in on conversation or reply". . . . ( should read as) . . . . "I do NOT join in on conversation or reply"