What's causing these ripples?

[Mike Té]

Lith printing; in my sessions over the last 2 days, 4 out of 5 of my results start and end with these marks. It's happened so much that I've tightened up my procedures, making sure that everything is thoroughly mixed, at 20 degrees and is slid into the developer smoothly...

These marks don't resolve as development progresses.

This is Ilford warmtone in Kodalith Super RT, 1+1+18 w/ 1 old brown.

Any ideas how to fix this?

Cheers and TIA

 

[Neal]

Dear Mike,

I had similar marks once using a different paper and developer. The problem was simply that the paper was defective (the bottom of a very old box of 250). See if you have similar problems with normal developer and the same paper.

Neal Wydra

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

Hello Mike,

I'm by no means an expert in lith printing, but a few things that come to mind:
1. What's your agitation like?
2. Have you tried another paper with exactly the same process?
3. Have you tried the paper in different chemistry? (standard b&w might offer some conclusions)

- Thomas

 

[keeds]

I've had troubles with overactive agitation. You must not stop though. I also found moving to a bigger tray helped remove overdevelopment around the edges

 

[Mark Layne]

Looks like insufficient agitation or perhaps inconsistent.
Mark

 

[Mike Té]

Ripple-free today.

Looks like insufficient agitation or perhaps inconsistent.
Mark

I've tried being consistent; I don't think that's it. Those marks are there from the moment the image starts to show, whether it's within the first 5 seconds or after a minute or 2, and they remain there. Because of that, at first I thought it was how I was inserting the print into the developer, because I often use the "plop" technique rather than a gentle slide into the tray. I kept getting the ripples no matter what, although about every 5th paper or so turned out OK.

I think the answer is as some have already suggested; it's the paper. All ripples have all been on the Ilford warmtone, both the 8x10 and the 11x14. I have no idea why; it's not old and it's been refrigerated up until last week.

Today I spent an entire ripple-free session; I went with my old Agfa MCC. (I did test one sheet of the Ilford, though; ripple!) I will try the Ilford in normal developer next chance I get.

 

[Silverhead]

I think the answer is as some have already suggested; it's the paper. All ripples have all been on the Ilford warmtone, both the 8x10 and the 11x14. I have no idea why; it's not old and it's been refrigerated up until last week.

That's an interesting conclusion, since Ilford is noted for their almost fanatical quality control. They certainly have the most modern and sophisticated production and QC facilities on the east side of The Pond. I personally have never seen such a problem with Ilford in lith before.

On the other hand, these are conventional silver-gelatin papers we're talking about here, which were not designed specifically for lith printing. True, they generally tend to work well in lith (some more than others), but since they weren't made specifically for that task, there sometimes are no guarantees.

Will look forward to your future posts about this situation.

 

[Mark Layne]

I've tried being consistent; I don't think that's it. Those marks are there from the moment the image starts to show, whether it's within the first 5 seconds or after a minute or 2, and they remain there. Because of that, at first I thought it was how I was inserting the print into the developer, because I often use the "plop" technique rather than a gentle slide into the tray. I kept getting the ripples no matter what, although about every 5th paper or so turned out OK.

I think the answer is as some have already suggested; it's the paper. All ripples have all been on the Ilford warmtone, both the 8x10 and the 11x14. I have no idea why; it's not old and it's been refrigerated up until last week.

Today I spent an entire ripple-free session; I went with my old Agfa MCC. (I did test one sheet of the Ilford, though; ripple!) I will try the Ilford in normal developer next chance I get.

Condensation in the freezer or on thawing? Not likely but-

 

[Mike Té]

Condensation in the freezer or on thawing? Not likely but-

Possible, though both the 8x10 and the 11x14 came out of the fridge several days before.