What will power Speedotron Lights besides their own packs? & Regional Power Differences

polaroid_memories

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Hi all

I am in the process of getting myself a group of Speedotron 105 light units, both the quad light 4 cable and bi-tube 2 cable units, and while Im based, and work, out of the UK (England and NI) I am having to troll the American second hand market for these lights and subsequent power supplies as the European market for used Speedotron equipment is scarse at best (trust me, ive tried). As such, as a working-class freelancer restricted by a realistic budget, new kit is just to pricey for me. I have family in the states, so shipping can be easily arranged if needs be, and having spent years out there in the past, I love the US, the people & the culture, and the secondhand market there is far superior to anywhere else - makes sense as Speedotron is based out of Chicago


My enquiries are simple - how can Speedotron 105 units (or Speedotron light units in general) be powered without the packs made by Speedotron, or another large capacity pack manufacturers if the lights have been modified? Does any one use these packs powered by any other means? How is it best accomplished? Is main power an option? Or fuel powered generators with sine wave protection?

Second part of my enquiry, as I am not an electrician, and have very little knowledge regarding electrical matters, it seems obvious to me that if I am successful in procuring these US Speedotron units, I wouldn't simply be able to plug them into any UK/Euro power supplies (be that the main power or UK/EU packs) because of the variation and differences in AC/DC power, voltage, frequency, hertz and overall power output... I know there are things that need to be taken into account, so what are the main considerations when buying kit from other countries whose power specificiations will be different to the power output where you will be using them? Is that why dedicated packs from the same country of orgin as the lights is the best way to go? I know there are adaptors and convertors that can easily be fitted to power supplies to alter the output to suit the needs of the unit it will be powering, but Id much rather get this info from someone who knows far more than I and has already tried and tested these methods, so I dont blow my lights up as soon as I experiment with what will power them!

And finally, in terms of power - say I had four lights, each with a capacity of 2000ws each, thus requiring 8000ws to power to use all lights at full power, would a generator such as a Honda EU2000i (2000ws) be able to produce enough power to fully charge all the light simultaneously, or is a massive 8000w generator a minimum needed to power these lights? As I havent had enough interaction with these things in my day to day, I just assume any wattage output source would charge these lights, but the capacity would only affect the charge/recharge time...

Apologies for the noobie questions. I simply need some help
Any experience, recommendations or links to documents, articles or books on this topic will be very helpful!

Thanks in advance
 

CropDusterMan

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Different strobes have different trigger voltages...it can be a tricky affair once you start messing about. I had Profoto Acute heads converted to run off of Hensel Porty's (before 7B's existed)
and it was expensive and took someone who knew what they were doing. The 2000 W Honda isn't going to cut it. Honda makes a good 3000W genie that works very well,
but you may need a 5000W. What you are attempting to do is pretty large scale. One option could be this. Not sure if you have access to Broncolor gear, but they made
a mirrored Parabolic Reflector called a "Satellite Evolution" that was about 3 feet around that put out a massive Pop with a 2400 watt head...I mean, you felt heat off of it!! But...we get back to the issue of flash-duration. Goddammit. a 2401 Speedo pack with a quad head in a Satellite or speedotrons mirrored sport reflector would work. What about contacting Speedotron and renting one?

Personally, it's going to be much simpler if you stick to basic solutions. Have you considered a constant light source such as an Arri or Mole Richardson 10K? How fast a shutter speed are we talking about? I've used them
and they put out TONS of light, but they are big and expensive to rent. They are available at movie grip houses but require serious power. Once we get into these set-ups,
you're talking serious cash. Another option is Maxi-Brute style lights (pictured below), basically multi-head parabolic lights.

I hate to add all of these options here, but your requirements, problems and geographic location are unique and limiting. If you haven't been pointed to it yet, a used website here in
USA is Craigslist...but you'll be dealing with everyday Joes who want you to come and pick it up. I'd seriously look at Broncolor options. Finding Speedo Quad heads and packs will be tough.

One last thought...generally, if you throw enough money at a problem, it'll go away.


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wiltw

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The voltage and capacity of a generator such as the Honda has NO DIRECT RELATIONSHIP to the power output of flash units!!! I have a 500 W-s flash and a 2000 W-s flash, both Dynalite, and while one outputs 4x the light as the smaller unit, it consumes a peak electrical draw only 2.6x higher.

In the case of the Honda 2000, assuming its output is 120VAC, it outputs up to 2000W/120V = 16.66A of power can be supplied.
If a single flash power unit, during the recycle period, draws 12A, you can only plug in a SINGLE flash unit into the Honda 2000.
Assuming there is a Honda 4000 model, then 4000W/120V = 33.33A. and assuming you have flash units which each draw 10A peak current, you could plug all three (total 30A draw) into the Honda 4000 (33A supply).
 
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cramej

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We're talking pack and head here so there will only be one unit charging. The packs, such as the 2401 and 2403, are meant to plug into regular household circuits so I doubt they would draw more than 20A. Speedotron doesn't have amp draw in their specs. The Honda 3000iS is rated for 2800W and 23.3A so that should suit your needs. It's also upwards of $2k MSRP....

Edit: I reread your original post and I see that you have a rather interesting request. "how can Speedotron 105 units (or Speedotron light units in general) be powered without the packs made by Speedotron?"

The simple answer is you can't. You are wanting to take bare heads with no controls or power storage and just plug them in to a generator. All of the functionality to make the heads work is in the pack - capacitors, circuits, switches etc.

Edit again: My reading comprehension is failing me today. I think my first response is what you were looking for. As for powering the Speedo heads with a different brand of pack, that would involve knowing the pin outs on both the pack and the heads to match them up.
 
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Ronald Moravec

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resummerfield

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It sounds like this is your first experience with a pack and head system. Buying into an older, antiquated pack and head system (because it is initially cheaper) will probably be the most expensive option in the long run.

I would determine the brand you wish to invest, considering the modifiers (the modifiers of one brand generally do not fit another brand), the variety of equipment (pack and heads, monolights, battery powered units, etc.) then chose a simple setup from that brand.

I find the modern, self-contained monolight systems easier to transport and operate than my older pack and head systems, and all my purchases in the past few years have been monolights. Some manufacturers (Profoto) even have battery powered monolights.

Two or three smaller 500Ws monolights will do an amazing amount of work. So forget the old pack and head system, and look into some new monolights.
 

cramej

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"What will you be shooting with these lights?" is another question to be asked. Location portraits? Indoor arena basketball? Products? Large construction machinery?

If the subject is going to be smaller than a car or on film smaller than 8x10, 8000ws is about as much overkill as using a coal shovel to dig a basement. resummerfield and others would be correct in that monolights may be more efficient/flexible for your usage.
 

wiltw

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cramej said:
We're talking pack and head here so there will only be one unit charging. The packs, such as the 2401 and 2403, are meant to plug into regular household circuits so I doubt they would draw more than 20A. .
Click to expand...

Well the OP mentioned 'a group of Speedotron 105' light units, the quad light 4 cable head and the bi-tube 2 cable head, ...hardly the mix of things to plug into a single power pack. Which is why I raised the discussion of multiple power packs on a single generator.

As for consideration of monolights vs. pack+heads, consider how your lighting will be set up...a monolight up high inside a softbox is hellish to adjust a lot! And the advantage of heads+pack is that then power is too high, even after dialing down the pack all the way, adding heads (fired into a black box) is a way to further reduce power.
 
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TheFlyingCamera

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What are you using these for? I'm assuming because you're looking for the quad head and 8000 ws you're thinking about either lighting REALLY big things or you're using them for wet plate collodion (or maybe even Daguerreotypes- who knows?). You can get the power cables to heads rewired to accept other packs. One of the most common conversions I've seen has been to fit Speedotron heads to Norman packs or vice versa. I've also seen Speedotron to Profoto. Doing this conversion is not for the DIY electrician. IF you are thinking about doing this, I'd have a specialist perform the conversion. Flash Clinic in New York City is a good resource (Dead Link Removed - the website is spartan, but it provides you with contact information for them). You're dealing with serious voltage in a 2000+WS capacitor - enough to be lethal. Get a pro to do any conversions so you don't kill yourself (and if you do, your relatives will have someone to hold responsible!).
 

John Koehrer

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Speedotron is very good workhorse stuff if you're in the US. Being in Ireland I'd look for
something made in the EU as recommended above.
I'd suspect that finding & shipping Speedo equipment & fudging adapters and powers supplies
will eat up any initially perceived savings.
 

RalphLambrecht

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I have done exactly what you are asking with a speedotron unit in the UK and Germany by simply using a large (100WW)voltage transformer from 240 to 120V. I is that simple.the lights are always powered by the charged capacitors inside the poer unit, which are charged by the power unit.Stick to the Speedotron power units.any other power source is risky to the light units and your well-being.
 

CropDusterMan

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In another post, the OP had planned on shooting skate boarding with a large format wet plate camera
if I remember correct, and much of the original thinking had to do with high output and fast flash
duration. There is a reason that the American Sports Illustrated photographers shooting hockey and
basketball used Speedotrons with 2401 packs and 105 quad heads...flash duration. Freeze the action.

Most pack/head and monohead systems are going to get longer flash durations as power is increased.
Elinchroms are also a great system, but the lack the output for the OP's needs. As he is in Ireland, getting
such units has been hard.
 
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