I was taking a candid of someone in my class, and they tried to hit me.
What should I do then?
What should I do then?
What to do if confronted?
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Probably a good idea to ask first, Marko. If not, hope you can run fast!
TheFlyingCamera
Membership Council
Stop taking the photo, and run away.
Seriously though, candids are a tough one, because you have to get your subject without their knowledge, and quite possibly without their consent. For now, I'd suggest confining your candid shooting to close personal friends who will consent in advance and won't be upset by your shooting them.
Seriously though, candids are a tough one, because you have to get your subject without their knowledge, and quite possibly without their consent. For now, I'd suggest confining your candid shooting to close personal friends who will consent in advance and won't be upset by your shooting them.
If it was a girl you should have stood there and taken the abuse. It might be a sign that she likes you. If not, it is good experience for married life.
IANAL but:
I assume you were in Canada, so translate as necessary...
Here, what you describe could be classified as assault. Battery if they landed a punch.
Step one : were you in a public area? Yes, goto Step two. Otherwise give up.
Step two : are there witnesses or other form of documentation (ie you got a picture of them swinging at you)? Yes, goto Step three. Otherwise give up, it will just be your word against theirs.
Step three : press charges for assault.
Consult a real lawyer familar with assault cases. Don't let them get away with what they just did.
Don't get caught taking the photo in the first place!
Many teenagers are extremely self conscious about the way they look. Pointing a camera at them is tantamount to waving a red cape at a charging bull! Even kids who look great to everyone else can think they are uglier than a mud fence.
Apologize and be more sensitive in the future.
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Don't take the photo in the first place.
OP
OP
Many teenagers are extremely self conscious about the way they look. Pointing a camera at them is tantamount to waving a red cape at a charging bull! Even kids who look great to everyone else can think they are uglier than a mud fence.
Apologize and be more sensitive in the future.
Thanks!
The kid was [lol] thumb wrestling.
For the person that gave legal advice, would be advisable to do if its only one punch? Also, as a minor, can I do this? What should I expect for compensation?
Lumps are part of the learning process.
I am sure you will learn to be more discreet the next time - or time after that - or time after that etc.
HCB undoubtedly took "lumps" in the beginning. I read where he learned how to leave his camera on a table and simply "fiddle" with it (i.e. point it, set the lens distance, aperture and shutter speed without looking) and take the picture that way - having never set camera to eye.
If you learn that trick - no one will ever know you took a candid shot - and you'll live to tell about it too!
I am sure you will learn to be more discreet the next time - or time after that - or time after that etc.
HCB undoubtedly took "lumps" in the beginning. I read where he learned how to leave his camera on a table and simply "fiddle" with it (i.e. point it, set the lens distance, aperture and shutter speed without looking) and take the picture that way - having never set camera to eye.
If you learn that trick - no one will ever know you took a candid shot - and you'll live to tell about it too!
OP
OP
My take-everywhere camera is a Olympus Stylus Epic!
I can turn the flash off!
I once took a photo of someone doing pushups in my gym class after they got into trouble.
it sounds like someone's trying to emulate bratty celebrities! It's not entirely unlike getting beat up for ogling someone's wife or girlfriend when they didn't know your intentions. It could well be that you were going to approach them directly after and tell them why you took the shot - and were going to send them a print. As far as I'm concerned violence is violence. You did not attack them and it's not right. If I had a nikon F I'd have slammed them right back with it! (okay- total overreaction - but it makes me mad to think of people acting like that!)
it could also be that you weren't even taking a photo - but were looking through the finder to see if your meter worked - or if your mirror was flipping up...!
it could also be that you weren't even taking a photo - but were looking through the finder to see if your meter worked - or if your mirror was flipping up...!
OP
OP
Is a Spotmatic heavy enough?
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it is a tough call marko ...
probably i would ask and then shoot.
when i was in college, i used to go to all night diners
and make photographs of the patrons.
i did it for about a year or so. one night someone came up to me
(drunk 1am) and threatened to kill me. he grabbed my camera and wouldn't
give it back. the waitress told him i was her brother (trying to reason with drunks is not easy ) and he eventually gave me the camera back.
the next time i saw him he told me how he worked for minor white at mit ...
i always ask nowadays ...
probably i would ask and then shoot.
when i was in college, i used to go to all night diners
and make photographs of the patrons.
i did it for about a year or so. one night someone came up to me
(drunk 1am) and threatened to kill me. he grabbed my camera and wouldn't
give it back. the waitress told him i was her brother (trying to reason with drunks is not easy ) and he eventually gave me the camera back.
the next time i saw him he told me how he worked for minor white at mit ...
i always ask nowadays ...
What's the matter with a girl trying to hit on you?
OP
OP
What's the matter with a girl trying to hit on you?
Nothing, but it was a GUY!
Disclaimer: This does not mean that I oppose homosexuality.
Nothing. The aim is to put the fear of God in them. Assault is a criminal offence and can be handled for nothing by the police; getting compensation in a civil case without proof of injury or loss is another matter, and a lot more expensive.
I can't justify a violent reaction.
But there is some thing that makes me uncomfortable about this thing some of you are calling 'candids'. Perhaps the same as what some people call 'street 'photography?
I think of candids as relaxed mutually consensual photos - the 'shootee' knows the shooters intent and is ok with it.
I realize the discomfort is my problem, but I don't understand where a photographer would draw the line - it seems sneaky, a step away from the nerds with camcorders and IR filters.
So, obviously, unless I get over that through concerted effort or some spontaneous impulse, I am not going to be successful in such a genre.
I see some people say 'don't take the shot', or ask first. I'm comfortable with those approaches.
If you KNOW there's a chance of the subject objecting, what makes it OK (to shoot without consent)? Now the original poster may have not had the guilty feeling that maybe it wasn't a good idea, but if you think it's sneaky, isn't it?
Obviously, I am going to be one of those people who shoots a lot of rocks & trees (& architecture if THAT doesn't offend - I did ask permission to shoot a building the other day (I asked the people inside :O) )
I apologize to any successful photographers in the 'candid' or 'street' genres, but I'd appreciate some perspective on this. Maybe I'll get over finding it distasteful (man, I'm the LAST person I'd ever consider hypersensitive!)
But there is some thing that makes me uncomfortable about this thing some of you are calling 'candids'. Perhaps the same as what some people call 'street 'photography?
I think of candids as relaxed mutually consensual photos - the 'shootee' knows the shooters intent and is ok with it.
I realize the discomfort is my problem, but I don't understand where a photographer would draw the line - it seems sneaky, a step away from the nerds with camcorders and IR filters.
So, obviously, unless I get over that through concerted effort or some spontaneous impulse, I am not going to be successful in such a genre.
I see some people say 'don't take the shot', or ask first. I'm comfortable with those approaches.
If you KNOW there's a chance of the subject objecting, what makes it OK (to shoot without consent)? Now the original poster may have not had the guilty feeling that maybe it wasn't a good idea, but if you think it's sneaky, isn't it?
Obviously, I am going to be one of those people who shoots a lot of rocks & trees (& architecture if THAT doesn't offend - I did ask permission to shoot a building the other day (I asked the people inside :O) )
I apologize to any successful photographers in the 'candid' or 'street' genres, but I'd appreciate some perspective on this. Maybe I'll get over finding it distasteful (man, I'm the LAST person I'd ever consider hypersensitive!)
OP
OP
Murray, thats fine, if you don't feel comfortable taking the picture, then don't.
Some of us like to put the limits to get more unique photos, but landscape is also great!
Some of us like to put the limits to get more unique photos, but landscape is also great!
MattKing
Moderator
Marko:
If someone's response to your attempting to photograph them in a school situation was to try to hit you, then that should be reported to school officials. A report to the police may also be in order (I'd take advice on this from the school). Violence is not appropriate, even if taking the photograph wasn't appropriate.
As to whether or not you should have taken the photograph at all, it depends on the circumstances. Were you in a location where you were entitled to be? Was the location essentially public (e.g. a school hall, or a classroom, or the cafeteria) or were you in a location or situation where there would be a heightened expectation of privacy (the washroom or waiting to see the principal)? When you took the photograph was he exhibiting behaviour that he would be embarrassed about, and which it would be more fair not to record?
When I was your age, it was generally known around my school that there was a great likelihood that I had a camera with me, and that if I was around, a photograph could be taken at any time. My high school annuals attest to that. Even so, I was still reasonably sensitive to most people's desire not to be in a photograph.
If you know that someone doesn't want to be photographed, I think there has to be a very compelling reason to ignore that wish and to take the photograph anyways.
Even though your classmate's response was inappropriate, it may still be a good idea to tell him that you didn't know that he didn't want to be in a photograph, and that you will certainly consider that the next time you are taking a photograph that he might appear in. Be careful not to promise him that you will never include him in a photograph, as he may be involved in group activities where photographs are both expected and usually welcomed.
Matt
If someone's response to your attempting to photograph them in a school situation was to try to hit you, then that should be reported to school officials. A report to the police may also be in order (I'd take advice on this from the school). Violence is not appropriate, even if taking the photograph wasn't appropriate.
As to whether or not you should have taken the photograph at all, it depends on the circumstances. Were you in a location where you were entitled to be? Was the location essentially public (e.g. a school hall, or a classroom, or the cafeteria) or were you in a location or situation where there would be a heightened expectation of privacy (the washroom or waiting to see the principal)? When you took the photograph was he exhibiting behaviour that he would be embarrassed about, and which it would be more fair not to record?
When I was your age, it was generally known around my school that there was a great likelihood that I had a camera with me, and that if I was around, a photograph could be taken at any time. My high school annuals attest to that. Even so, I was still reasonably sensitive to most people's desire not to be in a photograph.
If you know that someone doesn't want to be photographed, I think there has to be a very compelling reason to ignore that wish and to take the photograph anyways.
Even though your classmate's response was inappropriate, it may still be a good idea to tell him that you didn't know that he didn't want to be in a photograph, and that you will certainly consider that the next time you are taking a photograph that he might appear in. Be careful not to promise him that you will never include him in a photograph, as he may be involved in group activities where photographs are both expected and usually welcomed.
Matt
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As a minor, you certainly have the right to being charges. Whether or not you would be able to get the police to take this seriously, or find a lawyer willing to deal with it (it's your money, remember), seems iffy to me. Kids throw punches at other kids in schools all the time. When was the last time you heard of anyone being successfully prosecuted for taking a swing at another kid?
If you prosecuted and won, what would you gain? Would you have your candid shot? No. Would you be certain no other person would take exception to havng their picture taken? No.
The lesson here is this: Having the legal right to do something does not mean you can always engage in that behavior without risk. How far you go in asserting your rights is your decision. That said, I'd think getting a reputation as a photographer who takes his potential subjects to court is a good way to ruin your chances of getting any candid shots. If the opposite were true, we'd be all reading books HCB's legal techniques.
If you prosecuted and won, what would you gain? Would you have your candid shot? No. Would you be certain no other person would take exception to havng their picture taken? No.
The lesson here is this: Having the legal right to do something does not mean you can always engage in that behavior without risk. How far you go in asserting your rights is your decision. That said, I'd think getting a reputation as a photographer who takes his potential subjects to court is a good way to ruin your chances of getting any candid shots. If the opposite were true, we'd be all reading books HCB's legal techniques.
Marko, you are in school to learn. This is a learning experience, so learn from it. Here are my suggestions.
1 - Learn about the laws involved in shooting a candid in your school and elsewhere, what are they? Is it legal to shoot in the situation in which you would take the picture? Is it legal to shoot on a public street? In a privte building or property? Find out. This does not permit you to shoot up skirts on a stairway.
2 - If you take the picture (legally) and are threatened with physical violence, document the event, talk to witnesses who may wish to testify, report it to the police, then file charges. Go to trial and testify in your own behalf. Stand up for your rights!
3 - If you take the shot (legally) and are assaulted, return the favor in spades and beat the hell out of the person who hits you, I guarantee you it will not happen again, with this person.
4 - If this gets you in trouble with the school, they are to be taken to task ("peace builder" program which we have here in the states? too bad and I feel sorry for your situation). Talk to the news papers, the mayor, or go as far up the food chain as necessary to find out when you are permitted to use physical force to defend yourself.
4 - Can't defend yourself? Take a course in self defense, join the military, learn to box, judo or some form of personal defense. You will become more confident and will begin to feel better in general.
Your Dutch Uncle, tim
1 - Learn about the laws involved in shooting a candid in your school and elsewhere, what are they? Is it legal to shoot in the situation in which you would take the picture? Is it legal to shoot on a public street? In a privte building or property? Find out. This does not permit you to shoot up skirts on a stairway.
2 - If you take the picture (legally) and are threatened with physical violence, document the event, talk to witnesses who may wish to testify, report it to the police, then file charges. Go to trial and testify in your own behalf. Stand up for your rights!
3 - If you take the shot (legally) and are assaulted, return the favor in spades and beat the hell out of the person who hits you, I guarantee you it will not happen again, with this person.
4 - If this gets you in trouble with the school, they are to be taken to task ("peace builder" program which we have here in the states? too bad and I feel sorry for your situation). Talk to the news papers, the mayor, or go as far up the food chain as necessary to find out when you are permitted to use physical force to defend yourself.
4 - Can't defend yourself? Take a course in self defense, join the military, learn to box, judo or some form of personal defense. You will become more confident and will begin to feel better in general.
Your Dutch Uncle, tim
OP
OP
Is a classroom a public place?
I used to take karate. I might take it up again.
And, no I don't shoot upskirts.
Marko,
Would it help clear the way in future if you told your class(es) about your photography and the purpose, informed them that you wanted to take 'candid' photos of them at various times (outline the use to which they may be put) and ask is there anyone who objects to having their photo taken in this way. if there is/are, avoid those individuals.
You probably need to get some sort of clearance from the school authorities in advance so they don't get taken by a surprise complaint. In many situations now whilst you can legally take photos of anyone in a public place, a school is regarded as private property for that purpose. Most schools would now require you to have the written permission of the students parents if photographing on school property or whilst on a school sponsored camp or outing.
Would it help clear the way in future if you told your class(es) about your photography and the purpose, informed them that you wanted to take 'candid' photos of them at various times (outline the use to which they may be put) and ask is there anyone who objects to having their photo taken in this way. if there is/are, avoid those individuals.
You probably need to get some sort of clearance from the school authorities in advance so they don't get taken by a surprise complaint. In many situations now whilst you can legally take photos of anyone in a public place, a school is regarded as private property for that purpose. Most schools would now require you to have the written permission of the students parents if photographing on school property or whilst on a school sponsored camp or outing.
If this was on school property, report it to the school authority. Especially if you have proof of his assault or battery.
You may or may not have the right to take the picture on school property (if not, take your lumps so to speak but only from the proper authority) but they DON'T have the right to lay hands on you for any reason.
You may or may not have the right to take the picture on school property (if not, take your lumps so to speak but only from the proper authority) but they DON'T have the right to lay hands on you for any reason.
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