What respiratory protection to use with color film chemicals

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erian

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I am wondering that what kind of respiratory protection would be effective while working with color chemicals (E6, C41)?

I understand that most people handle the materials without any protection but I have a condition that makes me consider to either take precautionary measures or forget it.

I understand that I have two general options. Respiratory filters and fume extraction.

With the filters I have a problem that I am completely clueless and I do not know from what point to start to tackle the situation.

For example one 3M filter description in UK selection is: Organic vapours (boiling point above 65°C), inorganic vapours, acid gases, ammonia and its derivatives, mercury, formaldehyde up to 10ppm and particulates.

This looks to be the most multi talented filter but is it sufficient?

With fume extraction I have an issue that when I extract the air near the ground level then can it potentially contaminate the surroundings? That is, can something settle on the ground or surfaces?

Perhaps somebody hanging here has some practical experience with these matters?
 

BMbikerider

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Unless you stick your nose inside one of the beakers and take a big sniff - very little. Or if you are engaged in developing several films a day over many years again - very little.

I have been using C41/RA4 since 1991/2 and E6 up to about 6 years ago and I have yet to develop any problems, significant or otherwise. The quantity of chemicals is so small that if there were any problems there would be well marked warnings on the chemical containers.

If you however, have a respiratory illness such as asthma, for peace of mind speak to your doctor. There will be more risk of the chemicals causing skin problems such as Eczema or other contact related allergic reaction.
 

Sirius Glass

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As with all photochemistry, using a good exhaust fan is a good practice.
 

Wayne

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You don't want to extract the air near ground level, you want to extract it at or near sink-top level, as close to the rear of the sink as possible. If you're really that concerned the small amount of fumes could affect you, you could build some sort of fume hood to collect all the fumes coming off the sink and duct them outside.
 

MattKing

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As Wayne posted, draw the air from the sink away from you.
 

Mr Bill

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Perhaps somebody hanging here has some practical experience with these matters?

In the US, where I'm from, it is not permissible in the workplace, as I recall, to put an employee in one of those half-mask respirators until they have been screened by a doctor. There apparently can be some problems in one's ability to breath in against the slight resistance, etc. Also, the user is not permitted to have facial hair in the sealing area of the mask as this can affect the seal. Finally, the user must be trained in the proper use, including cleaning and sanitation after use, as well as have a "fit test" performed. The fit test uses some sort of material that the user can smell or taste if it leaks through the mask; in our operation we used a material with the odor of bananas. Because of these issues, it was far preferable to deal with things by so-called "engineering controls," aka ventilation. Of course the ventilation must also be tested routinely to make sure that it is protecting the employee.

It may sounds like I'm going a bit overboard on this, but hey!, you started it, right? (wink). You might note that I referred to "the workplace;" in the US this means a company with more than something like six employees, and these are essentially government regulations to protect employees from potentially bad behavior by the employer. Individuals outside of work are pretty much free to do as they wish.

See. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator_fit_test

Regarding what sort of mask you should use, you should look at the individual MSDS (material safety data sheets) for each chemical you use; these make recommendations for "personal safety." As a general rule, I'd say that mixing low pH fixers might suggest an "acid gas" cartridge, for a high pH fixer an ammonia cartridge, and for many other things in general, an organic cartridge. It sounds like the cartridges you are looking at is a "do-all" sort - essentially all of the above stacked together.

There can also be also be fine particulate (dust) if mixing from powders, in which case a particulate pre-filter may snap on over the cartridges. You should keep in mind that if you really need protection from these powders, they are probably also settling on surfaces in your mixing area, and may cause problems later when stirred up.

I'm speaking from real world experience in a large photofinishing operation, and these are things that we actually did, mainly in our chemical mixing operation. But we were mixing several thousand gallons of replenishers daily so things have to be done carefully.

You should also be careful about handling the chemicals during normal use. The color developers are considered to be skin sensitizers; after repeated contact certain people may develop an allergic reaction not unlike that of poison ivy. Over the course of a lot of years I've known of perhaps three people who did so; they were no longer able to work with color developers. It was pretty much their own fault fwiw, they were processor operators cheating on the rules by not bothering to wear gloves, or whatever, cuz it didn't seem like a big deal to them. As for myself, as a rookie QC tech I had spent a lot of time up past my elbows in color developers (always washing up with phisoderm (?) the recommended low-pH hand cleaner of the day). But when my boss suddenly developed a severe case of contact dermatitis I (mostly) quit handling with bare hands. (The boss was never able to handle the color developer again, without gloves; if he even touched a doorknob that once had color developer on it, his hands would break out.)

I've never done color at home, but if I did I'd probably just wear disposable nitrile rubber gloves and a smock of some sort when handling the chemicals. And make sure there is some sort of general exhaust fan. If the smell was bothersome to me, I'd probably see it as just not enough exhaust rather than go for a respirator. But in your case, as your say you already have some sort of problem, you may need to do more, I dunno.

As a note, to evaluate an exhaust system design, we'd use what they call "smoke tubes," something that puts out small puffs of "smoke;" you use these to see how effectively air is pulled toward the exhaust (you may have "dead spots" or whatever, in your room). If you smoke, this makes a convenient way to check the air flow. Or even just light a match and blow it out, but it only lasts for a few seconds.
 

beemermark

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In the US, where I'm from, it is not permissible in the workplace, as I recall, to put an employee in one of those half-mask respirators until they have been screened by a doctor. There apparently can be some problems in one's ability to breath in against the slight resistance, etc. Also, the user is not permitted to have facial hair in the sealing area of the mask as this can affect the seal. Finally, the user must be trained in the proper use, including cleaning and sanitation after use, as well as have a "fit test" performed. The fit test uses some sort of material that the user can smell or taste if it leaks through the mask; in our operation we used a material with the odor of bananas. Because of these issues, it was far preferable to deal with things by so-called "engineering controls," aka ventilation. Of course the ventilation must also be tested routinely to make sure that it is protecting the employee.

I've worked in several industries (including lead battery manufacturing & Nuclear) and never had to see a doctor to wear any type of respiratory mask. There is training to ensure you have a good seal with a full face mask but this is for highly contaminated areas. If the OP is worried about inhaling "dust" a simple N95 disposable mask is sufficient when mixing powders. If the chemicals are liquid no mask of any type will offer any benefit.
 

Mr Bill

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I've worked in several industries (including lead battery manufacturing & Nuclear) and never had to see a doctor to wear any type of respiratory mask.

I did a quick search, this faq from OSHA (in the US, OSHA is the regulatory body that oversees "worker" safety) suggests that you should have had a "medical evaluation," which could have just been a filled-out medical questionnaire by a "licensed health care professional."

https://www.osha.gov/dte/library/respirators/faq.html

Q: Must employees see a doctor before they use a respirator?

A: The employer must provide a medical evaluation to determine the employee's ability to use a respirator before the employee is fit tested or required to use the respirator in the workplace. Not all workers must be examined by a doctor. A physician or other licensed health care professional must perform the medical evaluation using the medical questionnaire contained in Appendix C of 29 CFR 1910.134 or an initial medical examination that obtains the same information.

That aside, I didn't want to get into the legal details, particularly since the OP is from a different countries. My intention was to show that there is more to using these half-mask respirators than meets the eye. If you genuinely NEED the protection they can supply then it's worth looking deeper into the details.
 
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erian

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Thank you Bill. This was very informative.

I have to give one clarification. By ventilation on the ground level I did not mean it being near the floor but near the literal ground and by near I meant at about 1.7 meters from the ground.

My would be dark room would be on the ground level and the exhaust would open to the semi closed area below the wooden terrasse. My question is that would the exhaust contaminate the surfaces it most likely will contact like be bottom of the terrasse planks and the surrounding walls?

My assumption is that if the exhaust consists of particular matter then very likely.

Can also vapors stick to the surfaces over what they move or the volatility is such that it would be not a concern?
 

Wallendo

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If you are processing roll film in small hand-held tanks and keep the tops on your containers holding the chemistry, the liquids will not be exposed to air for long and few vapors would escape. There should be no particulate matter. A small exhaust fan would likely be all you need and that probably isn't necessary.
the volume of vaporized chemicals should be so small that there shouldn't be any risk of chemicals building up on surfaces due to the fan.

On the other hand, if you are developing sheet film in open trays, there would be much more vaporization and you might want to take further steps if you have significant health issues.
 

pentaxuser

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You and maybe only your doctor know what your condition is so BMbikerider's advice covers matters rather well said.

pentaxuser
 
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erian

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The be fully honest, my health is one concern but I also do not want to affect the health of my family. For my self I could argue that I would be compensated for the risk I am taking but there would be really no such thing for others.
 

Wayne

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There is no risk to your family if you vent outside properly (I'd shoot for 10 air changes per hour with your condition), keep the darkroom reasonably (not obsessive-compulsively) clean and keep chemicals where children can't get them. I'm not 100% sure from your description where you are planning to vent the fumes to, but if its outside, even if semi-enclosed, as long as there is some circulation you are very unlikely to have any build up. I think it would take many many years of very heavy darkroom use for that to result.
 

Sirius Glass

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The bathroom fan does a great job getting the smell of hypo out of my bathroom when I am developing prints in open large trays.
 

mshchem

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I used 3M respirator at home. They need to fit. At work... We had to go to a doctor and be fitted before the company would issue one.I'm not sensitive to the modern color chemistry.
Be safe and comfortable. Gloves and a mask, ventilation all good ideas
 
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When I went through basic training in the USAF many years ago, we had to run through a tear-gas filed building using a respirator. The one they gave me was too large for my face. But I was afraid to complain to the instructor who was always yelling at everyone for nothing. Such is basic training. So I kept my mouth way open the whole time. That caused the pulling of the mask tight around my face so it would work. And it did work. Lesson learned. Make sure your respirator fits properly.

As an aside, once we got in one of the rooms in the building, they made everyone take off their masks so we be exposed to the gas and see what it's like. We all started to cough and wheeze as we ran out of the building holding our masks. I think they mainly did it to see us suffer and get a good laugh about it.

PS: Use an exhaust fan.
 

DREW WILEY

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I do RA4 prints outdoors, just as I previously did Cibachrome. I expose the color paper and load it in the drum in the darkroom, then take it outside to a special cart with the roller processor on it, obviously in decent weather, temperature-wise.
I have a canopy if just mild rain is involved. So color printing is seasonal for me. I have a huge fume hood, multiple fans, and have tried all kinds of respirators. My advice - don't be macho. One day you can wake up sensitized to something you
poo-pooed for years. Better safe than sorry.
 

P.johnson14

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Bunch of OSHA changes this year regarding masks, fitting, silica dust, etc. All I’ll say about that is we have less people, less time, more work, and more rules. There’s a reason some of us prefer to work 3rd shift...

As to the respirator, talk to your doctor about what you are doing and how it will affect your medical condition. With proper ventilation, you shouldn’t need much in the respirator category. When we weld stainless at work, we have a workbench with an adjustable dust collector pickup that pulls the harmful gasses away from the welder. It’s adjustable so you don’t pull all of your shielding gas away from the work. Just an idea. You could probably rig something up with a shop vac to get the same effect.
 

fdonadio

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As an aside, once we got in one of the rooms in the building, they made everyone take off their masks so we be exposed to the gas and see what it's like. We all started to cough and wheeze as we ran out of the building holding our masks. I think they mainly did it to see us suffer and get a good laugh about it.

My father told me about his training. They didn’t use a building, but a tent. The instructor would explain how to use the respirator before taking a handful of recruits inside, every one of them (except for the instructor, of course) holding their respirators. They had to put on their respirators at the instructor’s command, inside the (at that point) gas-filled tent. In every group, one of the respirators would be intentionally clogged (with a disc of cardboard) and the “lucky” recruit would have to take the filter out, remove the cardboard disc, reassemble and fit it again. The clogged respirator was always handed to one of the “bad apples” in the troop. They exited the tent by the other side and the next group would never know about what happened inside the tent.
 

DREW WILEY

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Doctors aren't typically trained in this kind of thing. They talk to you after you're already messed up. Respirators and oxygen supply masks are fitted in smoke booths by major distributors of safety equipment. But regardless, a tight fit is required. Dealing with particle hazards is different from dealing with organic vapors, though you can get respirators that deal with both. Acid and ammonia vapors require special types. ShopVacs are worthless for controlling hazardous dust - the just spread them. It requires something a lot more serious (and expensive). But if your fume extraction system is intelligently designed to begin with, that's 90% of the battle.
 

pentaxuser

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So with a fairly wide range of advice, erian, what have you decided to do? Frankly unless we know what your "medical" problem is and if we do then it has escaped me, then any advice other than advice from your doctor who does presumably know what your problem is, is possibly not the best thing to listen to.

pentaxuser
 

Ko.Fe.

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What family has to do with film developing?
I feel kind of rush on my skin during C-41, E-6 developing, but family? Clean spills after developing.
 

Agulliver

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Everybody reacts differently to exposure to various chemicals. For example I have contact dermatitis which is quite serious on contact with fabric softeners....but seem immune to any reaction to laboratory chemicals. I've been working in labs for 19 years and developing films in my bathroom for 32 years.

OP has a condition which may mean he needs to take more care than most of us. I'd suggest talking with your doctor about whether your specific condition is likely to mean you have issues with the chemicals used in darkrooms. Your two points of contact will be your hands when you mix and pour chemicals. No matter how much care you take, you will one day spill some. If you're concerned, latex, nitrile or rubber gloves are pennies. The other is vapours given off from the chemicals. Ventilation is your first line of defence here. A well vented dark room with good extraction at the correct height and near to where you're working with the chemical bottles will help a lot. I have no experience with respiratory masks or other equipment but would say common sense dictates they will need to seal perfectly to your face.

I have heard of people who worked in photo labs who begun with no sensitivity to the chemicals and developed mild skin sensitivity over years. So things can change.
 

darkroommike

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If you have a respiratory condition you shouldn't be doing color darkroom work, your condition may or may not also preclude you wearing the proper mask. No way any of us here can know. Consult with your doctor, no one here is qualified to make that sort of evaluation over the Internet.

Me? I also love woodworking but can't work with softwoods like pine, seems I have an allergy to pine resin and real turpentine. So I have to take precautions, but wouldn't post my requirements for protection on the woodworking forums.
 
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