What paper has the whites base?

[stradibarrius]

I am trying to get prints that have bright whites and black blacks. I thought that Oriental Seagull VC/FB would be pure white.

 

[paul ron]

Illford MGVII FB has a bright whie base, slightly warmish but deep blacks.

 

[hpulley]

Yes, I find Ilford MultiGrade IV fiber has a very white base for when I want neutral tones.

Which Seagull paper are you using? They have cool, natural and warm tone paper. You probably want the natural or cool for the whitest whites. Sounds like a laundry detergent commercial... The cool tone is described as jet white while the natural is described as giving pure white.

 

[stradibarrius]

Seagull FB/VC is what I have. I had read that this is the paper that AA used to achieve white whites and black blacks. I have tried Ilford MGIV and it has considerable more warmth.

 

[hpulley]

Is that an old one? "New Seagull" all seems to be cool, warm or natural toned.

 

[Jim Noel]

Adox MCC 110 yields excellent separation in the highlights. Far better than the current Oriental papers. The whites compare in brightness to any paper I have used which includes the old Mitsubishi which had absolutely brilliant whites.

 

[stradibarrius]

It's the new seagull.
I am just wondering if someone has a suggestion of reallly bright cold papers other than Oriental or Ilford MGIV?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

The New Seagull has nothing in common with the old Seagull. Nothing on the market today does - the old Seagull had cadmium in it which accounted for the brighter whites. When it was still around, I used to print on it exclusively. Now it's gone, and if you can find any remaining, it is surely badly fogged. While not the same, I have been a big fan of the Bergger VCCB paper - it produced very nice bright whites on a warmtone paper (the paper base is bright white, the image-forming silver is warmtone) that was very easy to tone to whatever you wanted - a little selenium or gold chloride would take it down to cold cold inky blacks in a heartbeat. Ilford cooltone developer also did a bang-up job.

 

[MattKing]

In the world of RC, the Ilford Cooltone is nice and white.

 

[paulie]

kentmere is v white also, and adox fine print, foma no all warm

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

I would disagree with flyingcamera on the aging properties of the old Oriental papers. I have several opened boxes that I have been working through for more than a few years, and also several unopened boxes in the freezer. All of them were obtained second and third-hand, and no clue as to how they were stored. I have yet to find any hint of fog. I can't say the same for any of the Kodak, Dupont, Agfa or Ilford Galerie.

I would have no hesitation about buying used (old) Oriental graded papers. One opened box of G2 has been in the basement for five years, and has seen its share of temp/humidity extremes, and one flood. I printed on the stuff last weekend.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I would disagree with flyingcamera on the aging properties of the old Oriental papers. I have several opened boxes that I have been working through for more than a few years, and also several unopened boxes in the freezer. All of them were obtained second and third-hand, and no clue as to how they were stored. I have yet to find any hint of fog. I can't say the same for any of the Kodak, Dupont, Agfa or Ilford Galerie.

I would have no hesitation about buying used (old) Oriental graded papers. One opened box of G2 has been in the basement for five years, and has seen its share of temp/humidity extremes, and one flood. I printed on the stuff last weekend.

The graded papers perhaps- the VC stuff, different story. I think it depends very much on the quality of storage for those papers - if they've not been refrigerated/frozen, it's a crap shoot. There's a store near me that has a whole bunch of the graded Oriental in the blue boxes - that paper has to be going on 20 years old if not older. Even though I was tempted, I did not buy any because it's been sitting on a shelf in the store, unrefrigerated. It's also mostly odd grades (grade 3 and 4). Might be ok for lith printing but I wouldn't chance it.

 

[brian steinberger]

I find Oriental VC FB to be quite white. Kentmere may be whiter, but I haven't gotten black blacks on Kentmere. I believe Ilfords MGWT has the blackest blacks I have ever seen, amazing. But for whites I'd still go with Oriental. MGIV and MC110 are a little warm.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

It's been a few years since I've tested, but when I last did, Ilford Galerie FB Glossy graded had the whitest base, and it was whiter than modern Oriental graded.

 

[2F/2F]

I find that the new Oriental VCFBII has plenty of pop in the whites, but that is a tonal issue, not a hue issue. Are you asking about tone or about hue?

The Oriental can vary in hue with developer changes, like any paper. I purposefully use "seasoned" developer with this paper (i.e. mix fresh stock in with used developer, instead of fresh water) when I want a more creamy white. The buildup of bromide warms the paper considerably, and the addition of fresh stock every once in a while keeps the blacks from flattening out and the mid tones from getting mushy. I suppose testing with a color reflection densitometer would be the way to go to figure out which paper is the most neutral. I would just get small packages of a couple of different types and test them out. I would definitely include the Oriental VCFBII and Adox MCC 110. I'd try a few different developers too.

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

Pretty please give us the name of this store near you in D.C. that has all the old graded Oriental boxes. With all that cadmium, it is surely an environmental hazard in the making, and should be disposed of properly. I would be happy to help.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Rich- it's PhotoPro, on I Street between 18th and 19th. They also have a significant back stock of Agfa papers, which undoubtedly ARE fogged beyond salvation. Oh, and when I talked to the owner maybe 5 years ago about a deal on the paper, he offered it to me at maybe 5% off new list. So I said no thanks.

 

[Rich Ullsmith]

Thanks much. Yes, the Agfa does not seem to age well. Even in lith it has to be restrained. I will give those guys a call, if somebody else doesn't call first. Thanks again.