What negative Exposure compensation to use in country with bright light like India?

[BrianShaw]

Take a good nap, Brian, and then go out and buy a box Brownie, and "let Kodak do the rest". I personally learned metering with the first Honeywell Pentax model offered in this country, long before the K1, using an external meter and fussy Kodachrome, and almost never botched an exposure. There's simply no substitute for sheer familiarity with one's own equipment, as well as the lighting situations likely to be encountered. Trying to dumb it down below that fact doesn't help anyone. It's just like learning to ride a bicycle - a certain amount of scrapes and bruises are inevitable. That's the only way someone is going to learn to get from Point A to Point B efficiently. The "training wheels" gotta be removed sometime. I never had them to begin with.

Ok; will do. Now that I re-read the entire thread to find anything you wrote that might help the Op in that goal. Didn’t find much. Lots of noise, side-chatter, and bragging. Now bored and tired. Good night, dear.

 

[pentaxuser]

Ok; will do. Now that I re-read the entire thread to find anything you wrote that might help the Op in that goal. Didn’t find much. Lots of noise, side-chatter, and bragging. Now bored and tired. Good night, dear.

Brian, I felt we had passed the point either carelessly or deliberately where we were trying to help the OP anyway ( British understatement) so I thought I may as well pass on my observation in # 75

pentaxuser

 

[BrianShaw]

Brian, I felt we had passed the point either carelessly or deliberately where we were trying to help the OP anyway ( British understatement) so I thought I may as well pass on my observation in # 75

pentaxuser

I found that fascinating!

I might measure mine to see if there are differences between left and right hands. That knowledge might help advance the science, too! LOL.

 

[Mike Lopez]

Stereotyes, stereotypes, stereotypes. If someone recommends using a hammer to drive in an upholstery tack, does that mean a sledgehammer? And if someone doesn't want to be accused of being an "Ansel Wannabee", does that automatically make him an "Avendon Wannabee" using a white sheet background?

Heck, I use red filters all the time, and I don't get either black skies or blanked out shadows. That's what correct metering and exposure allows. Does anyone here understand the meaning of the term, "nuance". But if, for creative reasons, someone does in fact want pure black, is that a felony? Would you accuse Brett Weston of being an "Ansel clone"? Of course not.

And there's far more to filters than just clouds and skies. For example, this past week I've used a red filter to bring out the patterns of almond orchard blossoms (white or light pink) in differentiation from green foliage, which red darkens. And in the mountains, after a snowstorm, when the sky turns blue again, then all the micro-texture in the fresh snow has bluish micro-shadows, and a red or orange or yellow filter will variously bring that out better in a black and white image, versus a polarizer, which simply flattens and kills it all. Lots of uses; and one more reason to set aside the stereotypes.

And to Mike specifically - apparently you haven't seen much of AA's overall work. Actually, only a small percent of even his landscape images have blackened skies. Sometimes there was a strategic reason when he did that, like processing streaks on the original film, or even the silhouette of a mosquito inside his bellows, and landing on his film just prior to the exposure. If you look at his most famous Moonrise photo, earlier prints did not have a black sky, and were hell to retouch due to all the processing irregularities in the sky. That was symptomatic of old water bath processing technique, in an attempt to control the extreme contrast of the scene involved.

But given all the air pollution and jet contrail stuff now worldwide, it's hard to get a black sky with a filter anyway. Skies simply are not as blue as they once were, even at higher altitudes in the mountains. Only once in the last 30 years have I witnessed a sky as blue, up around 12,000 ft, reminiscent of what was almost routine in my youth growing up there.

Drew, I’ve seen plenty of Adams’ original prints up and down the west coast, and in particular many of the retrospectives around the time of the centennial anniversary of his birth (2002). And I’ve seen at least four “interpretations” of Moonrise printed by him—you aren’t telling me something new there. I don’t like black skies because, in my opinion, which I’m entitled to, they are excessive in effect. Sorry about that!

 

[DREW WILEY]

Have a good nap, Brian. Sorry that you regard basic metering and filter ABC'S as somewhow "bragging". All that's just a starting point, at least if someone wants a realistic starting point. Otherwise, like I already said, "Push the button and Let Kodak do the rest," or some rote internal camera program that makes the decisions for you, for better, or more likely, for worse.

 

[BrianShaw]

Sigh… deep sigh.

+1

 

[DREW WILEY]

Mike - yeah, on this one we are both indeed off topic; but as long as we're at it, here goes anyway .... I shared perhaps the largest retrospective ever of AA on the West Coast, up to that point at least, timed just a few months after his death, and there wasn't a single black sky in it. The parallel exhibition in the Oakland Museum a couple months earlier, of his work only, in a somewhat smaller space, did have a few of the classic black-skies, including the later rendition of "Moonrise", but not many; in fact, quite a bit of his early work. I'm certainly not a clone of his, and got recognition printing in color well before even taking up black and white, so have no stake in this ideologically. I was just pointing out what I consider to be yet another misinformed stereotype.

And the money-spending general public did gravitate to his more "theatrical" images, if I might be excused for labeling it that way, which will not doubt offend someone, though probably not you. Most paid just for postcards, others for actual prints of the same well-known images, whether made by him, his assistants, or now photomechanically reproduced. And late to the game museums tended to collect just the better known "must have" images themselves.

But growing up in the light of the Sierras, and photographing in that light for two decades myself before I ever even saw an actual AA print, I can recognize his own sensitivity to that light, which more often than not, did not lead to a "black sky" image. When it did, there was often a thunderstorm involved, and he was trying to convey the drama of the mood. I've been in many many thunderstorms truly that black. But did he overdo it in his prints? Anyone's call. All photography is basically illusionism. I've been steeply criticized at times for expressing my dislike for the totally black sky of "Moonrise", but recognize the practical reason he went that far.

 

[MattKing]

As a moderator, I would like to have an off-topic shovel.
Something with a really wide blade/pan, that could scoop up bunches of off topic posts in one big scoop.
Is it fair to anyone that this thread be forced to close!?

 

[gone]

As a moderator, I would like to have an off-topic shovel.

Yes, it's an "interesting" thread. It's also a new moon tonight, maybe that's it?

I just came to the last page here, foolishly thinking I'd find a summary maybe (how long could it take to tell the op to bracket their exposures on a roll of film and decide what works best for them?), but so much for that idea.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

OP, this is good advice. Don't worry too much, trust your eyes, trust your camera's meter, bracket one stop over, one stop under.

I just came to the last page here, foolishly thinking I'd find a summary maybe (how long could it take to tell the op to bracket their exposures on a roll of film and decide what works best for them?)

Has been performed a couple of times. Buried under offtopic.

 

[markbau]

I found that fascinating!

I might measure mine to see if there are differences between left and right hands. That knowledge might help advance the science, too! LOL.

I thought everyone knew about the palm exposure method. It was mentioned in a few Kodak publications over the years and I think in the Horenstein book too. I mentioned it because the OP seems to need some basic, commonsense exposure advice and the palm method works well. I've used it and Kodak taught it too.

 

[Sirius Glass]

As a moderator, I would like to have an off-topic shovel.
Something with a really wide blade/pan, that could scoop up bunches of off topic posts in one big scoop.
Is it fair to anyone that this thread be forced to close!?

Hip boots, a muck rake and a good editing knife would fix the problem. Heck, as a one time gig I would do it without injecting my opinions. You know how to contact me.

 

[markbau]

Y

Hip boots, a muck rake and a good editing knife would fix the problem. Heck, as a one time gig I would do it without injecting my opinions. You know how to contact me.

You'd volunteer to be a moderator? I was a mod for a large newsgroup once. I'd prefer cleaning septic tanks to ever being a moderator again. Some people like the "power" but it's actually just a massive time sink.

 

[MattKing]

Y

You'd volunteer to be a moderator? I was a mod for a large newsgroup once. I'd prefer cleaning septic tanks to ever being a moderator again. Some people like the "power" but it's actually just a massive time sink.

In my previous life, the firm I practiced with had a client who did make his living cleaning septic tanks. He actually seemed to like it - few were interested in starting an argument with him!
As just such a volunteer, I can assure you that it has its pluses, and its minuses.

 

[Arthurwg]

I agree, I rarely use contrast filters, maybe a yellow now and then but anything more just screams "Ansel Adams Wannabe" with the brooding dark skies. Any photo where the filter draws attention to itself is a failure in my mind. I love much of AA's work but that early photo of his that he refers to as his seminal photo, the one of half dome with the almost black sky is awful to my eye. But many people love it! Whatever rings your bell.

I can't stand skies that lack all tone. A filter usually helps to eliminate that.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You'd volunteer to be a moderator? I was a mod for a large newsgroup once. I'd prefer cleaning septic tanks to ever being a moderator again. Some people like the "power" but it's actually just a massive time sink.

Only on a case by case basis when heavy editing needs to be done to save one particular thread with clear criteria from MattKing or Sean on how they want that thread edited. Similar to being on a jury, follow the directions exactly and leave your personal opinions at the door. To be a moderator as a regular position heck no, I am retired and I am going to stay that way.

 

[jvo]

flash... the OP disappeared, a while back methinks...

 

[Alex Benjamin]

flash... the OP disappeared, a while back methinks...

He's probably already in India...


...shooting digital.